Maiden voyage

[walyfd]

Took 4 years but I FINALLY got the '62 Fleetwood out for a good ride. 120 miles with cruise and air from Scranton to Jersey.... and anyone complaining about bias tires needs and alignment.

[Firedome]

That's a lovely car Walt. If I had to name my very favorite year of Cad it would have to be a '61 or 62, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between them. It'd probably be a minority opinion but personally I think they look best in white or very light solid or metallic colors. Here is Cadillac at it's very zenith.

[walyfd]

The Jetson GM era was quite spectacular... funny but I had a cadillac club meet last week and said how the 61 and 62 GM line never even had to exist at all. Plus what it had to cost in engineering to press those bodies...

If you look at a 1960 and 1963 GM, they're practically a perfect segue. The 61 and 62 were truly special.

As for color, I'm not a white fan. About 25% of cadillacs were white in 1962. BUT, I wi say that at night, this car floats off the road. White picks up every curve and nuance of the body. Black or navy looks as slab sided as a lincoln...

This car has more in common with my '91 than my '57. So easy to drive. And seats with Marshall springs make a difference too. On the 57, 2 railroad crossings and your tail is on the exhaust pipe.

Wish I had this car 25 years ago...

[William]

Nice looking car, Walter. You should take it for another test ride only this time to Michigan and take me for a ride.

Bill

[walyfd]

As far as I can tell, the car was ORDERED new from Simon's Cadillac of Columbus. It's an early car, Sept 21 build date... has odd options like standard 2-way seat but fog lights and guidematic... but factory air

It was cooked with cigarette smoke. Had to tear out the headliner and resew, by hand, the sun visors.

But... there's really something even more special with the seats in this with the coil Marshall sets

[TC Chris]

Wow, makes the pickup truck look tiny....

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

Overall, it's the same size as a 77 to 92 GM C bodied car. The wheelbase is longer because they cut back on the front overhang.

Seriously, it's quick, powerful, lithe and, if you're used to driving a late 70s boxy GM car, this is a breeze.

One noticeable thing is, despite rather tiny mirrors, there is honestly no blind spot on this car even without a passenger mirror.

[Firedome]

When you find that perfect navy or black '62 that you have to buy let me know, I love them in white! lol
Our neighbor across the street bought a new 1964 model 62 4 dr hardtop in white with an incredibly gorgeous and rich looking blue brocade interior from Chesapeake Cadillac and he'd let me come with him when he took to
to downtown Baltimore in their original building on Charles St to get it serviced. Real white glove service in an old fashioned 3 story building with ramps. I still have a desk thermometer they gave to customers.

1964 was still Cad at it's best, truly jewel-like in trim, interior and panel quality with proven mechanicals. He really babied it, hand washed weekly, chamois dried and always garaged. His wife Mildred drove it and he drove a new Biscayne bought every few years to his law office downtown. No kids so children ever rode in that Cad other than me. When I went back to visit after college around 1974 it still looked brand new. I should have bought that car when they moved to FL shortly thereafter. The '61-62s were unique with the low and more modern looking headlight placement and it's right that the '63-64 was really the true successor to 1960. I like the low placed lights better, hence my preference for that unique 2 year style.

The '46-47 Packard Custom Super Clipper had hand-tied Marshall springs under their beautiful wool seat covers (even had a wool headliner!), it's the right way to build a seat but expensive, had no idea Cadillac was still using that construction, did earlier models have them as well? Any pics of your interior and dash?

[19&41]

Mighty handsome car.

[electra225]

Very elegant car, Walter. Cadillacs with options would let me build a Buick with options. The lines of cars of this vintage are timeless. And all that stainless. Rolls-Royce quality for the most part.

[walyfd]

Thanks. Been working on the list of "discoveries"...

First off, one of the vacuum actuators gave out so the air was shutting down at throttle. Replaced that. We reset timing and mixture a bit. Then we discovered the front brakes were dragging. Secondary shoe on the passenger side was cracked when I got the car so I redid the front brakes. Heat riser was sticking. Worst thing is its running hot. I never pulled the thermostat until last week. "deleted" THING WAS UPSIDE DOWN!!! Kicker is its a 165 and car calls for 180. Replaced it and still running warm. Drove home with the heat on and vents open. Doing another flush but with Thermocure this time. And the transmission is still leaking from the pan or filler tube. At least the chassis won't rust...

Most of this wasn't unexpected but it is frustrating...

My buddy drove it all weekend. He has a Coupe de Ville for 11 years so he knows the car. That's NYC in the distance.

[electra225]

You'd better look under your Cadillac, Walter. If the trans is leaking, maybe somebody put a Dynaflow in it. If a Dynaflow quits leaking, it's time to add more oil.......

The 1969-'70 Cadillacs were "blessed" with a vacuum doodad on the firewall that would fail, causing all the air from the AC to exit on the floor. The part was long ago unobtanium, even in the late 1970's. A popsickle stick, judiciously located, would let the cool air exit the proper vents. One would remove the popsickle stick in winter to allow the heater to work. There were lots of those cars running around the area back in the day. People liked them and I got the reputation for having the "fix" for the AC problem. That and power steering hoses on Ford Taurus was my specialty when I was wrenching........

There is something about gazing over a hood close to 8' long that is mesmerizing. I think those little lights on the fenders are sexy as all get out. Buick didn't get those until 1968. Does your Cadillac have an operating fan clutch? Fan shroud? What condition is the radiator? Was the engine rebuilt and the block vatted to get the sediment all out? Cadillacs were known as the camels of the Southwestern desert until the 4.1's came along. The old cast-iron V-8's were pretty tough in that regard. They typically had large radiators and big shrouded fans.

A GM engineer at the Proving Grounds here in the Valley gave me the secret to tuning a GM V-8 engine. Any GM V-8 engine ever built. You make sure the timing mark is accurate, making sure the outer ring on the harmonic balancer is still in the right location. If it isn't, you have to find TDC on #1 cylinder mechanically, then mark the balancer accordingly. That done, make sure the vacuum advance on the distributor and the centrifugal advance are both working properly. Then set the timing at 36 degrees BTDC at exactly 1200 rpm. Set the throttle with a correct tool and verify engine speed with an accurate tachometer. This is vital. That done, set the timing as mentioned above. This assumes you have an electonic ignition system, such as an Ignitor in use. If you still run points, set those to 30 degrees dwell as a first step. Dwell affects timing, timing does not affect dwell. Makes them run really sweet, no ping. I run regular gas in the Buick around here. IF I go out of town on the interstate at sustained speeds, I put in premium. Probably unnecessary and a bad habit learned "in the good old days". What do you run in your Cadillac?

[walyfd]

Engine and trans were never done as far as I can tell. There was evidence of the heads being done because there's copper colored washers under the valve springs and that was a later fix on the early '62s. Only has 36k so I'm sure it's full of sediment. Once this flush is done, I might as well get the pump redone. Fan shroud is there and the clutch works so it's gotta be crap in the block and/or weak pump. Also, I'm thinking the heat isn't helping the leaks...

I always said cadillacs stop leaking when they're empty.

I ran 90 pure gas going out and refilled with 93 10% ethanol. Jersey doesn't have pure gas in that area.

Despite the issues, it ran nicely. Only got about 10 mpg overall.

[electra225]

When I was restoring cars, I had clients sign a form if they didn't want the drivetrain gone thru during a restoration. I've had to pull engines from totally done cars and I'm telling you, it's no fun. I charged $3000 labor to remove and replace the engine in a done car, period, no questions asked, no exceptions. Extra if I had to touch absolutely ANYTHING except the engine. "The most expensive part/procedure you don't do during a restoration will be the first thing to fail". That was a rule I had on a sign in my office. Art would charge $1500 to R&R the bumper, grille and moustache bar on a mid-'50's Buick, twice that for a Cadillac. Cars of that vintage had hoods that would take the paint off the front fenders if they were not aligned right. We put foam protectors on that area when we had the paint done, taken off just before the client took delivery of his restored car. We removed engines from done cars with the hood still on. Like a dentist doing a filling with the patient's mouth closed. We removed the trim and the core support, then snuck the engine out the front. Everything covered with horse blankets and us with our butts puckered, lest we skin something up. There was zero room for errors or mistakes. I have NEVER seen a car restored that had a good-running engine that remained original that didn't have to be removed and rebuilt within a year of the car being done. I don't know what there is about that, but it is almost always true. Doing a Buick with a torque tube was financial suicide if you didn't rebuilt the entire drivetrain, engine, Dynaflow and rear end while you had it all apart. I sure hope your Cadillac is the exception to this rule. It's a beautiful car, well done.

You mentioned a sticking heat riser. That will cause overheating. I would torch those totally out in every case. They cause more trouble than they solve. Their purpose was to help prevent carburetor icing. AFB's really didn't have that problem in any case. The Rochester 4CG's would ice if they were on a bonfire.

[William]

The closest thing to your Caddy that I have had the opportunity to drive lately was a 1962 Buick Electra with all the options. That, like I'm sure yours, just floats down the road. Were you heading into NY on this road trip? I think I would be afraid to drive that nice car in NY city.

Bill

[electra225]

Another side to that story is a '56 Packard Carribean we did. The black, pink and white one I posted a pic of when the forum was new. IT was a California junk yard car, with only the body, engine and frame, no front clip, no top, most of the trim gone, no trunk lid. And with 1200 pounds of mud daubers nests in every crook and cranny of that car, including the engine crankshaft. It was solid as a dollar, not a speck of rust anywhere. IT needed at least one of everything. We did an almost $250,000 rotisserie restoration on it, took five years to find all the parts, have them restored, then put it back together. The first Packard V-8 I had ever done, the first one done with Case tractor engine bearings in the 374 V-8. We even replated the window regulators and powder coated the seat springs. Every nut, bolt, screw, stitch was perfect. The owner wanted the best one there was, and just kept bringing Art a check. The time came to deliver the car. Art and I each drove it for about ten miles apiece, determined that it was done as well as humanly possible. The thing was a sweetheart, a true 400-point Packard.

The customer arrived with his big dually and padded car trailer. Art hopped into the Packard, turned on the ignition, hit the starter. Nothing. Dead as a hammer. There was still heat radiating from the engine, obviously it had recently been run. It was so dead the dome light wouldn't work. The repop Delco battery had failed. We pulled the battery from my Buick so the guy could attend the car show we were both going to attend. Guess who didn't have his car at the show? So it works both ways in the car restoration business. Murphy's Law works no matter what you do.

[TC Chris]

Rolls-Royce quality for the most part.

I always had a dim view of high-end GM cars (and others too) because they rusted just as quickly as the Chevys of the world. I grew up in Salt Central, Michigan, where 1960s cars tended to dissolve fairly quickly. Regardless of price, they were facing perforation in about 3 years. It reinforced a view that price was mostly correlated with size and amenities, not quality.

My Chevy was showing its first perforation by 1964 and I talked my Dad into having it Ziebart rustproofed. I'm quite sure it retarded rust, although it certainly did not stop it. My '65 Olds was Ziebarted when new and is in much better shape for it.

That said, I've never worked on higher-end GM cars and know nothing about other aspects of quality.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

The stainless trim on GM cars, from Chevy on up, was top notch. Really on the same level as Rolls-Royce. I don't know who their supplier was, but they did stainless right. Ford and Chrysler never came close in their stainless quality.

[walyfd]

I bought the car 4 years ago. I did a test drive with the owner on a hot August day with the air on and we drove maybe 20 miles. Back at his house, the radiator took a pee... I knew it needed some sorting. Trailered it to my house. We dropped it off 3 blocks from my house, I drove it home and immediately started tearing into it... so it sat 3.5 years while i went through the interior, detailedthe engine, etc. First thing I noticed was the 13# radiator cap. Calls for a 15#. Never peed again but now it's too warm.

As for trim... stainless on the '57 is superior to this. It's heavier. Stainless was flash chromed so the stainless would match the bumpers. Not positive if it was just a cadillac thing but their bumper plating process was grind and polish, nickel plate, buff, copper plate, buff, chrome and buff again. Closest to what we consider "show chrome" today BUT they only concentrated on the top surfaces. The underside of the front bumper looks like it got sandblasted with gravel. And chrome shops will not replicate that detail.

If you over buff stainless, you could "burn" it and it'll turn brownish. Happens when you go through the chrome.

[Firedome]

Yes the stainless trim on my '56 Olds 98 Holiday Sedan was heavier and of larger dimension than that of later year GMs.

Cads of that period were leagues above lesser GM makes in materials, assembly quality, paint and trim except for TOL Olds and Buicks which were probably close up to about '64. Everyone slowly dropped off after that, and '71 and later cars were a low point. But any cars back then would rust if not treated and maintained properly in heavy salt-use areas, including M-B and Rolls if driven through the winter. No makers properly rust-proofed bodies back then. Cad, Imp and Lincoln etc didn't have all the wood, wool, and leather of Rolls/Bentley but were actually mechanically superior overall in respects like engine, trans, HVAC, and electrics, if not fit & finish. Design-wise the '61/62 Cad or '61 Olds 98 4 dr hardtops (either 6 Window or Holiday Sport Sedan.. in Twilight Mist (orchid) Poly) are A#1 on my 'bucket list" were I ever to get one last vintage car prior to terminal senescence... not likely to happen, sadly.