Allegro A-192

[William]

If you are really unhappy with the way the speakers turned out maybe down the road you can build some new ones out of better wood that would take stain.

Bill

[TC Chris]

If you are really unhappy with the way the speakers turned out maybe down the road you can build some new ones out of better wood that would take stain.

Bill

Or apply some veneer over the existing ones.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Just in the way of a suggestion, I have found that lauan and plywood takes stain more than I like many times unless I sand, seal and fill the grain prior to stain. You might try using a furniture refinishing compound of one half lacquer thinner and one half acetone. After the finish is removed, the stain may be lighter. If it's not light enough, use a citrus stripper, which should remove a lot of the existing stain. Then start over using a wash coat of shellac for the sealer. Good luck.

Edit....I posted this from my phone when I was at work. Google's stupid spell check wouldn't let me post "lauan". I kept changing it to "laundry".

As you probably know, the plywood and lauan that is available is very soft wood. It soaks up stain like a sponge, making the color uneven and blotchy. And the grain is very open, further compounding the over-staining concern. When you sand, seal, fill grain, then seal again, you not only close some of the pores that absorb stain, you seal the wood so you can control how the stain penetrates. You can make your own grain filler by using wood filler and stain. All grain filler is would be really thick stain. It appears to me that if you were to strip the finish and as much of the old stain as you could, you should be able to start over and achieve good results. Good luck.

[Firedome]

I've done a fair amount of furniture refinishing, I'd strip it, chemically, or belt sand it if thick enough, thin the correct color stain (a lighter walnut or maple maybe?) a goodly amount and do some test patches where not visible. Alternatively paint the speakers a complementary color.

[hermitcrab]

I really wanted walnut for the speakers , but the price per running foot was crazy and I had to order it , one miscue or measurement and it would be over...except the swearing....

[electra225]

Do you have scraps of the wood you used to make the speaker enclosures? If you do, you might experiment a bit with stains and procedures to see if you can come up with something you like better. Rust-Oleum makes a stain they call "American Walnut" that is a dead ringer for the stain "LWAL" (light walnut) used on some Magnavox cabinets, of which I own two, including the Stereo Theater. You can get it at Walmart. Sand the bare wood, grain fill, follow with a wash coat of shellac. Then do your stain. Start light at first. When you get it like you want it, follow with a couple good heavy coats of shellac to seal in the color. No finish except shellac with penetrate shellac. Block sand after the shellac is dry, then apply your finish. I don't think your original finish is beyond hope. Filling that soft grain is key in being able to control stain penetration. If you fail to seal the stain, the solvents in the finish may react with the solvents in the stain, darkening it. Good luck.

[hermitcrab]

Yes , I used a variety... some poplar, luan, and masonite ... my rafters are full of scraps from other projects , I try to use up what I can before it is considered a fire hazard I figured it would look weird , and I did use conditioner on the boxes before I stained ... and it worked perfectly , until the combo min wax stuff decided to run down the sides , after that it will not take the stain evenly , I will probably build new ones with the proper species of wood this time. one tweeter is dead and it vibrates on deep bass... The original units had 8" woofers , they had to be the magnet in front of the cone type as the depth is only 3" overall for the boxes... anyway it is good for now , my wife uses it as it is simpler to use .

[electra225]

Not to belabor the point, but I have had very mixed results using "wood conditioners". Some of it is water-based and is pretty worthless, in my experience. I have had way better results using good old-fashioned shellac. I can control how thick I put it on, thus better controlling stain absorption. And, like you, I have found the "all-in-one" stain and finish compounds to be not much good for furniture, although they work okay on "rough" projects like decks and fences. Birch plywood and lauan seems to take stain better, after being grain filled and sealed, than does poplar and the really soft woods. Birch is also good for mimicking walnut when you get it stained right. Try some of that Rust-Oleum American Walnut stain on birch if you get a chance.

[Firedome]

Don't understand the need for shellac, on new (bare) wood why not just apply then rub in/off the appropriate stain after testing on the same wood for the correct color concentration, letting dry for however needed, then apply the appropriate modern sealant, I myself like semi-gloss polyurethane. Finish chemistry has come a long way since the days of varnish and shellac.

[electra225]

Because bare wood absorbs stain at various rates. This is what makes the finish look dark and blotchy. If you grain fill and seal with shellac, it fills the soft part of the wood that absorbs stain unevenly. You can use a wash coat or you can use a full coat or several full coats, then sand as you need to help vary the shade of the stain. Shellac is alcohol-borne. No stain will penetrate, since it is solvent-borne. Same with top coats, they are either water or solvent-borne. Shellac will prevent fish eyes, too. And it will seal cigarette scum to keep it from smelling. It is great stuff, very versatile.

Also sealing with shellac after you get the stain like you want it will keep the top coat from reacting with the stain and changing it's shade or color. You can mop it on, then block sand to finish filling any little imperfections from either grain filling or subsequent work. Then apply whatever top coat you'd like other than shellac and you are good to go.

You can use orange or clear shellac to further tint your stain.

[TC Chris]

In our 8th grade shop class, Mr. Sonnevil taught us that one should use shellac over stain before varnishing, to keep the stain from migrating into the varnish. It was The Right Way to Do It. So when I built a bass-reflex speaker enclosure for the '37 Zenith radio, using plans from a library book, I stained, shellacked, and varnished. But the varnish tended to separate under light pressure. What?????? Much later I found my old can of stain. Turns out it was stain-varnish, not just stain. So I had applied shellac over varnish. Not a good plan. I always grin when I think of that.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

The can also tells you not to use shellac under polyurethane. I have done it numerous times with good results. I like shellac under poly because it makes the grain "pop".

[Firedome]

Things have moved on since 1963. Furniture refinishers nowadays no longer use shellac and haven't for a long time, and they don't use varnish either, but, hey, use it if you choose. Equally good or better results can now be had using modern methods with much less prep and effort. Just look at recommended procedures by furniture finishing experts nowadays, none of them use shellac or varnish. Research has shown that poly is far more durable. I've had excellent results using Epifanes poly, vs their varnishes, and never use that 1 step poly crap at Lowes, and poly does not need shellac first. Some Olde Fartes still prefer lacquer or single stage enamel vs base-clear on their cars, and I was one of them until I got my '69 done 3 yrs ago, now I'm a believer. Paint technology moves on... but TEHO.

[TC Chris]

Things have moved on since 1963. Furniture refinishers nowadays no longer use shellac and haven't for a long time, and they don't use varnish either, but, hey, use it if you choose. Equally good or better results can now be had using modern methods with much less prep and effort. Just look at recommended procedures by furniture finishing experts nowadays, none of them use shellac or varnish. Research has shown that poly is far more durable. I've had excellent results using Epifanes poly, vs their varnishes, and never use that 1 step poly crap at Lowes, and poly does not need shellac first. Some Olde Fartes still prefer lacquer or single stage enamel vs base-clear on their cars, and I was one of them until I got my '69 done 3 yrs ago, now I'm a believer. Paint technology moves on... but TEHO.

As with most references to expert opinion, it depends on which expert you choose. I've subscribed for years to Fine Woodworking magazine, and many of their high-end furniture makers choose shellac as a finish or a prep coat. Many use varnish. Some, indeed, use polyurethane. It all depends on the intended service. I used poly on a round oak dining table when I refinished it 46 years ago, and I recoated the top using the same can about 6 years back, just because I had beaten it up pretty well. I chose poly for its durability and not for its looks. On the sailboats, the mahogany gets spar varnish, oil stuff and not poly. The real enemy out there is UV, and I redo the exposed wood every year (scuff sand and recoat x 2). Shellac is a very good finish for pine furniture because it looks good.

On the vehicles, the base/clear on my 2005 Ranger, which lives outdoors all year, has been very durable. Except for the two filler pieces , skinny sections between roof and B-pillar, both of which lost their clearcoat. I wash it about once a year and between washes it looks clean after a rain. And of course, we've all seen those cars with vast sections of peeled-off clearcoat. My favorite car paint was the original acrylic lacquer on the '61 Chevy. The panels that retain their original finish (hood, trunk, one door) look great. They polish up very nicely. That finish was hard, tough, and shiny. Good stuff.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

"Things may have moved on", but there are still basic principles in wood refinishing that haven't changed. Primer and sealer is used under automotive finishes to fill imperfections and to seal against contamination. That same principle applies to wood refinishing. You use grain fillers and sealer to accomplish basically the same result. Many of the "modern" refinishing procedures aren't available to the common man. So we resort to using the tried and true methods handed down from wood working shop in high school or from a mentor. I started using poly because we have critters in the house, that tend to make messes, usually somewhere you don't want or need a mess. Cat emissions will turn lacquer white. Flower pots on wood furniture will turn lacquer white. Nearly every compound known to man is a natural enemy of lacquer. Plus it shrinks, cracks, and crazes. The only way to hurt poly is with a bulldozer or setting it on fire. Like Chris pointed out, different jobs require different finishes. I'm not big on toners. They were used in the olden days to cover end grain and things like that. Now we have dyes that do the job without using toner. I think toner looks like overspray. But that's just me. The old radio guys get their panties in a wad if you don't use toners correctly.

[hermitcrab]

I remade the speakers using hickory this time, the first set as earlier stated had a bad tweeter, and one box resonated so bad on bass notes because of the light weight wood used .. so version 2.0, these are 1/2 inch thicker in depth , but I still could not secure an 8" woofer that could fit in a swallow case. Parts express had shallow speakers , but they wanted 50 bucks a piece for them ... so ended up using 6.5 woofers , and got another set of 2.5 tweeters and a pair of cheapo 2-way crossovers from alibaba. , the first set just had a cap for the frequency separation .. the sound spectrum seems better and no more resonating on strong bass notes anymore the lows now seem more enhanced... I changed the speaker cloth to a neutral grey and I secured a badge to let everyone know what it is when closed ... plays great. this should be the end for this project .. on to the next.

[William]

It looks good, Elton. I need a 10 woofer for my GE Trimline 600. It too must be shallow and so far, no luck finding one.

Bill