Wonderbar repair

[walyfd]

I fully recapped the radio in the 62 cadillac. I had done the electrolytic before but now did the coupling caps as well.

Before doing the coupling caps, it would intermittently stop on a station, usually below 900. It'd scan and scan and shutting it off and on would stop it until the bar was pushed again.

Now, it scans constantly, even as soon as I turn it on. If I turn it off around 700 on the dial, it'll unwind all the way to 1600. It's driving me nuts.

Who is the best rebuilder for these? Seems like everyone wants to gut them and add FM and Bluetooth.

[Firedome]

Yay! Keep it original!
I'd suggest a post on the AACA website? Or the Cad/LaSalle Club?

[electra225]

Is your Cadillac Wonderbar tube or SS/hybrid? It makes a difference in how the trigger works. If tube, there might be a 12AT7 or a 12BL8(?) used as a trigger. Sounds like the Wonderbar switch is shorted/warped/ dirty/stuck. If you watch the Wonderbar when you push it in, you will see the switch it contacts. There is a guy on ARF who does car radios, Tayman is his name, I think. He likes to do FM conversions, but I think he will do standard radios as well. Would you care to share the model number? I might have a schematic for it. We might be able to talk you thru the repair. If the radio work well otherwise, that's more than half the battle. Good luck.

[walyfd]

Hybrid, I d say. Transistorized amp with tubes in the set. The 12AL8 closest to the front is the trigger.

Reached out to a shop in N Tonawanda. NY. See what they say. I am NOT having this set chopped up. I have a RediRad for cd or whatever...

Cadillac guys go the gut route. Corvette guys are purists...

[electra225]

I say leave them original. If you want a car with good air conditioning, good brakes, decent handling, an FM radio with Bluetooth and all that nonsense, but a new car. If you want an old Cadillac or an old Buick or an old Corvette, put up with how they were when they were new. We love a scratchy old AM radio, imaginary brakes, wallowy handling and 8 miles to the gallon. LOVE IT! What is the added electrolytic cap, the black one, for? What happens if you pull the trigger tube? I'll go to the shop and see if I have the drawing for that radio.

[walyfd]

No clue what that cap is for. I'm THINKING static reduction? It was there so I replaced it.

I didn't go over the resistors. I'm not so adept at that. Only other anomaly is the can caps are 750v and closest I could find were 680 BUTthe radio runs and ran before. It's the search circuit and tone that are off. It seems like the search has been dying which could indicate a resistor...

I remember before the 57 radio plotzed, it'd stop on stations perfectly. I'd pick up stations from Binghamton, NJ and one from Canada that leap-frogged to a transmitter in NY state.

I'm done fighting this. I want it done and done right so I can put the dash back together and enjoy it. Older I get, less patience I have for this...

IF the 63 AM-FM would fit correctly AND if there was a bulletin that it could be retrofitted, I'd give up the wonderbar for factory FM but I can't consciously do that...

[electra225]

Wonderbar radios can be a pain to get working right. Part of the trouble is not the radio, but the silly digital stations we have now. I don't have a diagram for that radio. Closest I have left is for a '59 Buick Wonderbar. I'd go over your work, since it works "worse" now than it did before you recapped it. Then check resistors, particularly in the IF and trigger circuits. I 'm not sure about that black cap. That doesn't look like it belongs there. I still believe part of the issue is that the switch is sticking. My Buick Wonderbar doesn't work right anymore. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. The issue with mine is the antenna.

Another suggestion would be to check the alignment, particularly the antenna trimmer alignment. You replaced caps, which may have altered the tuned circuits enough it weakened the IF section. Do a good alignment on the chassis. Also there should be a local/distant switch. Make sure it's good, not dirty. Anything that cuts down on the signal will affect Wonderbar operation.

[walyfd]

Again, over my head...

I can try to this that and the other thing and, as much as I'd like to understand and fix it, I simply no longer want to "learn"... the constant try this and that no longer interests me. I just want it to work and put the "deleted" dashboard back together and enjoy the car!

I'm sure it's something relatively simple. I'm also afraid of soldering these old boards.

[electra225]

I used to be fairly good at the Selectronic and Wonderbar radios. I never liked working on them, so I can certainly understand your position. I'm guessing that part of the reason the Cadillac guys like to gut those old radios is that nobody wants to work on them anymore. The only way to get their radio going again is to adhere to convention and put new guts in the old case. Seems like no two Wonderbar repair cases were the same. Seems like there was lots of things that went the matter with a Wonderbar set. Packard used Oldsmobile and Cadillac radios from years past in their new cars. 1956 Packards had 1953 Cadillac Wonderbars in them, complete with the vacuum antenna switch on the channel selector. Studebaker used Delco Wonderbar radios for several years.

[Motorola minion]

I worked on one for an Impala SS a friends dad has, it needed the 12AL8 but it did work. There are AM signals that it liked, as I recall only the two local ones is all it stopped on.

Up in W's area, there are some decent AM stations still around but not all are powerful or close, so I understand the issue. Wonderbar must have been the ultimate back when AM was mostly music. RIP to Scranton's WARM 590 that would even reach into NY and NJ

[electra225]

I can remember when WJJD in Chicago would stop a Wonderbar at 1190 in Indianapolis. I'm wondering if the relatively "dirty" AM radio signals along with decreased bandwidth is messing up Wonderbar performance. I know alignment and antenna strength have a lot to bear on the Wonderbar sets.

[Dr. Radio]

I can add my 2.5 cents....

If you can find the actual factory authorized service data for it, you're miles ahead. Sams photofacts and the like do not delve into the details like the United Motors/Delco Radio docuentation. Alignment is key, following instructions exactly to perform the alignment is key.

One concern that was never an issue back in the day, but very could well be a problem that rears its ugly head is the IF transformers.

AC/DC radios that have miniature IF transformers that are slugged tuned suffer from silver mica disease. The miniature IF transformers that are slugged tuned in car radios may not have the high voltage present to cause silver ion migration on the base capacitor mica sheets BUT the wild swings in temperature and age can play havoc with the base mica capacitor connections in them causing high resistance connections to the mica substrate or intermittent opens. Anything wonky in the IF signal chain will adversely affect wonderbar operation properly stopping on stations.

[walyfd]

I found a tech in NY who, like us, believes in restoration rather than gutting. I should have it back soon. Apparently the relay circuit was badly corroded and it was out of alignment. I don't have the skills or tools to do alignment and the relay involves even more accuracy.

AM broadcasts have changed since August 1961 so I'm glad I got someone to do it. I'm looking forward to tapping the foot switch and getting 2 sports, 3 religious and maybe 1 music station. IF I can get something from Binghamton or Allentown at 9 PM, all the better.

I still remember 25 years ago pulling in a station from Canada and some from the Catskills on the 57. Sadly I'm sure some of them have gone silent...

[Dr. Radio]

I found a tech in NY who, like us, believes in restoration rather than gutting. I should have it back soon. Apparently the relay circuit was badly corroded and it was out of alignment. I don't have the skills or tools to do alignment and the relay involves even more accuracy.

AM broadcasts have changed since August 1961 so I'm glad I got someone to do it. I'm looking forward to tapping the foot switch and getting 2 sports, 3 religious and maybe 1 music station. IF I can get something from Binghamton or Allentown at 9 PM, all the better.

I still remember 25 years ago pulling in a station from Canada and some from the Catskills on the 57. Sadly I'm sure some of them have gone silent...

Thanks for the update. Hopefully all will go well. As far as stations worth listening to, being in the northeast, you should be able to get "Zoomer" 740 out of Canada. They have their Saturday night oldies show. (or last I checked).

https://zoomerradio.ca/

[Firedome]

I recall in one of my clubs, Olds or Cad/LaSalle, there was someone who worked on them as original radios, can't remember who it was or where/when I saw it. I'm sure it's repairable, try to stick with it and I agree, find an expert if you can! There might be someone with an ad in Hemmings.

Like others here I'm a sticker for originality for my cars, though not like a trophy-seeking participant is, just like them the way they were made, except will put on dual master cyls on cars that don't have them, a '67 Dart cyl works perfectly on most older Mopars. The '69 Cutty has dual cyls std for that year, and I kept the 4 wheel manual drum brakes because they actually work extremely well when set-up right, and they're very easy to modulate properly without using excessive force.
As they say: "If it ain't broke..."

[Motorola minion]

Car radios were some of the very first we played with as kids, batteries before line voltage . I got a 58 plymouth radio made by ? , at an estate sale for 50 cents. I found a speaker somewhere and had it working from a train transformer which was HO, fortunately it was DC. First song I heard on it was Rick Nelson playing Garden Party

I was impressed how easy it was to recap a 1952 Delco for a Chevrolet, using the solid-state vibrator replacement, so the tubes were AA5s The reception was surprisingly good when I put it back in the car and dialed in the antenna trimmer. At my age and plenty of unlucky failures, its G-E (good enough) and I know better than to go further.

Sams photofacts are fun to read for car radios, due to operation of those space-charge tubes using just 12 volts! I would not attempt an alignment due to my general lack of this knowledge in this specialty. Its no surprise those careful factory procedures cannot be "muntzed" down to a standardized table format Sams uses.

Im glad you can find a shop that can. There is a place in Greensburg PA that does car radios too.

[electra225]

Buick signal-seeking tuner radios started in 1951. From then thru 1956, they called them "Selectronic". Starting in 1957, they were called "Wonderbar". I never knew the difference if there is any. I'm guessing it was an attempt at standardizing nomenclature between the GM divisions, but I don't know that.

[walyfd]

1956 cadillac was the first year with both manual and bar tuning. Not sure of the other divisions. The early wonderbar also had buttons you could set. Probably a safeguard when the wonderbar died..

We had a 77 Newport with Local and Distant scan buttons and a footswitch. Took us 3 years to figure out what the second floor switch was.

[electra225]

Buick had pushbuttons along with the Wonderbar on their radios up until the end in 1965. Packard used Oldsmobile and Cadillac radios, although prior year models. The 1954 Packards used 1952 Oldsmobile radios, still six volt. Then in '55 they went to '53 Cadillac Wonderbar radios. I thought those had pushbuttons along with the Wonderbar. The vacuum antenna switch was on the tuning knob on those radios. It was a 100% Cadillac radio, with the exception of the knobs and chrome trim. So, is Buick the only GM car division that called their early signal- seeking radios "Selectronic"?

[walyfd]

So I got the radio back a few weeks ago with a list of what was wrong with it. A cap and 3 resistors and a weak tube. He also realigned it and cleaned the relay several times.

I installed it and trimmed the antenna. It worked for about 5 cycles and the relay locked again. And I mean LOCKED. Shutting off the radio didn't release it.

Option was to send it back or have him walk me through the relay circuit. I removed it and cleaned the contacts with 1500 grit paper and deox. There's a window on the side of the case where you can see the relay contacts. I had to slightly tweak the gap in the contact stops and it works perfectly. Apparently they lose tension and cant kick the contacts off. I pick up 9 stations on max, 5 on mid and 2 on min sensitivity so I'm happy.