Magnavox TP-241 record player

[electra225]

This record player will be my next restoration project. It came from here in the Valley and I've had it for three or four years. I got it about the time we started packing up to move, so I've never done anything with it. The VM changer has been serviced by Mr. VM, so all it may need is a drive tire, mounts and a needle. The hard part is done. I'll go thru the electronics then see what we have. My purpose for this instrument is to play 45's. Nothing better ever invented to play 45's than a VM changer. I forget what cartridge this has. There is a unique procedure for pulling the chassis. You have to do that before you can remove the changer. I may even have the cabinet of this one recovered. I've thought about doing it myself. This thing should be a dandy when I get it done. I've been looking forward to this project for a couple years now.

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

This series of Maggie portables are good players.

Your TP-241D is called "The Riviera".

If you go about re-covering the cabinet, please
post that process.

I'd like to learn how to do something like that
for functional players that have lost their
good looks.

And you are RIGHT about some of the wonky ways
the amp and changer were designed to go
into the cabinet.

I posted previously about the nice El Dorado TP-246D that I
restored.

[electra225]

Riviera, huh? That would be aptly named for a Buick guy......

That's the one I've got. It is green and tan Tolex covered. Mine is missing the 45 adapter. You remove the knobs and metal grille to get to the amp chassis. Removing that gives access to the changer retaining components. I have been practicing all the folds and cuts you need to recover a Tolex cabinet. I believe I can do it. Never know until I try. I'll take lots of pictures so a professional will know how it's supposed to be when I mess it up and they have to fix it.........

[electra225]

I've done a preliminary inspection and established a baseline of performance. Since the LP side of the needle is gone, I played a Fats Domino 45 with the worn-out 78 needle. This instrument sounds amazing! Even though it needs the touch, it still sounds like a Magnavox!

It pulls 40 watts running. All the tubes are Magnavox branded and the codes are: 35C5 output tubes, 2 ea., made by RCA in the 50th week of 1957. 12AX7 audio amp built by Sylvania in the 2nd week of 1958. 35W4 rectifier built by RCA, no date code readable. The 8" speaker has a 232 code, Magnavox, dated the 42nd week of 1957. The 4" speaker has a 575 code, Heppner, built the 45th week 1957. It has AMP 168-A, coded the 39th week of 1957, so it is a fair bet this is a 1958 instrument. This record player amp has the healthiest crossover cap I think I've ever seen. 2uf@50 volts. The external speaker connection arrangement is awkward and hard to remove the amp chassis without the potential of damaging the wiring. I am going to make plug-in connections for that so I can remove the amp if I ever need to. And, I'll admit that, although I have had this apart before, I had to study a bit before I remembered the secret screw. If you don't remove that ONE screw, you will destroy the front mesh grille and still won't ever get it apart.

I believe the cartridge is a Sonotone 2-T now unobtanium new, replaced by a Pfanstiel P-228 stereo cartridge, perhaps a good idea in any case. This record player combines the best of both worlds. A Magnavox instrument with a VM changer. Why Magnavox didn't use VM across the board instead of the vastly more complicated Collaro changer is beyond me.

There is a big old bumblebee/black beauty cap from the output tubes to the RCA connector for the cartridge input. I believe it to be an .047 at 600 volts. Deciphering bumblebees without a drawing is not my strong suite. I don't believe I'll need a drawing for this, since everything works now. If anyone has a value for that cap different from what I think it is, I'd be grateful if they were to correct me. Thank you all for your interest and input.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the white Tolex in the changer compartment has been replaced at some point. It's not very well done, and it doesn't match that on the inside of the lid. I don't believe Magnavox would put out such sloppy work.

[William]

I remember that unit, and I kind of figured it had potential and would sound good. Have fun with the restoration and keep us all posted.

Bill

[electra225]

I made the mods to the speaker wires. Magnavox external speaker wires normally fall off, you can't keep them on. These are soldered, which makes working on this thing more difficult than it needs to be. I made the terminals on my little jumper wires so they can't get mis-connected, they will only go back one way. I separated the amp chassis from the speaker board so I can dig into the chassis without endangering speaker cones to my fumbling fingers. The filter caps check good, and there is no hum, so, I wonder if I'd be too far off if I just left them? There are three Goodall caps that will go along with the bumblebee cap. I'll clean tube sockets and repopulate the original tubes. I will clean the speakers and maybe polish them up a bit, not that anybody will see them. I'm wondering if I might not replace the original mono cartridge with a stereo cartridge bridged for mono. Then I can play any record I care to. And, I'll be careful not to put too much oil on the shaft the drive tire rides on. Don't ask how I learned this.......

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

Greg,
I replace all vintage cartridges now with the
Pfanstiehl P-228 or P-226 stereo carts,
where they fit in the tonearm.

I use a fine copper wire wrapped around both
sets of cartridge pins, and press on cartridge
clips to keep the wires in place.

Having a new supple cartridge really allows
for much better record play.

I have found that older carts won't always
allow for the stylus to set down properly
into the lead-in groove of a record.

This, even after I have the tone-arm set down
position set perfectly.

I believe this is due to the rubber "yoke" or
"stirrup" that the stylus sits in, being hardened.

[electra225]

I got a couple hours of bench time in on this record player this afternoon. When I was doing my baseline evaluation, I noticed some distortion in the bass output. I was playing a 45 rpm record with a worn-out 78 needle, and wanted to do the electrical repair before I made a determination on the distortion. I replaced the four caps under the chassis, cleaned tube sockets and tube pins, cleaned all the controls. I powered back up, this time I played a good 78 rpm Ink Spots record. One known in better shape. I still had the distortion in deep bass notes. I appears that the voice coil is rubbing in the big speaker. I subbed another speaker and the noise went away. My dilemna is that I don't believe in replacing original speakers. I believe that changes the "personality" of the instrument. What I may do, for the short term, is to leave it alone. In the final analysis, I'll probably send the original speaker out and have it repaired. I can sub a temporary speaker if I decide to go that way, but I want the original, or correct, period replacement in the cabinet. The small speaker didn't work at all when I powered back up. I found one lead on the crossover cap was disconnected. I didn't do that. I shorted across the crossover cap, and found the speaker does work. What I will need is a crossover cap, motor mounts, a drive tire, a needle and a Magnavox emblem.

I also found that this instrument has an unusually long power cord. There may be a good reason for that. You don't want to completely remove the power cord from the cabinet when you work on the chassis. The changer must be removed in order to thread the power cord back thru the cabinet. This changer has the kind of retainer clips that must be removed to remove the changer. Not the kind that folds up, but stay on the studs. Lifting one side of the changer a bit will allow access for your arm to replace the clips that hold the changer down.

[TC Chris]

I have sometimes cured a rubbing voice coil by twisting the speaker frame slightly via shims under a couple of the corners. You might try this to see if it would work on yours. If you can flex the frame by hand and the rubbing stops, this is a cheap fix.

I have a TP-235, a slightly earlier version, and it is troubled by (1) too much bass, and (2) rattling expanded-metal grille. I have replaced the filter caps but not other caps, nor resistors, so that might explain the excess bass. Not sure what to do about that grille. I tried gluing it down. Didn't work.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

I'll try your speaker tweak idea, Chris. Thanks for that suggestion.

There are two strips of deteriorated cork in the two rails that hold the metal mesh grille in the cabinet. My guess is that is to help prevent that mesh from vibrating. There are also two extruded rubber thingy doodads with grooves in them that mount on top of the mesh against the top of the wood cabinet, also to prevent the mesh from drumming against the cabinet. I believe I'll make a couple strips of cork and glue it to the top where the mesh contacts the cabinet. Then make cork strips to replace the originals in the two rails that hold the mesh in on the sides. That should stop the drumming. This one has not done that, but this one is also taken partially apart and I've not played it with the mesh installed, in fairness.

Also, does anybody have any idea of what optional colors this cabinet could have come in from the factory? And, does anybody have a good picture of what the center of the platter mat looked like. I'm sure this had one, typical of Magnavox, likely gold in color. Mine is missing if it existed. I also need a Magnavox script. And, would it be considered gauche to reproduce the "Magnavox High Fidelity" sticker in the lid in red instead of goldish brown? My idea for the cabinet is red with the raised panel on the side in black with white interior and red Magnavox decal. I'm wondering if that was a factory color, but in any case, it would be a killer color combination.

[TC Chris]

And, does anybody have a good picture of what the center of the platter mat looked like. I'm sure this had one, typical of Magnavox, likely gold in color. Mine is missing if it existed.

On my TP-235, the mat had rotted from sitting vertically during long storage. It's on a Collaro changer and was brown. I bought a new brown mat from the V-M guy and haven't figured out how to secure it. I'm resisting glue or double-sided tape, and so I've been storing the player horizontally. On the kitchen floor. Yeah, my house is not a showplace, unless you like old electronics, books, and recordings.

Chris Campbell

[William]

Since the changer is VM, the mat is also VM with no additional trim. Remembering the mat and again seeing it again in your photos, I do not believe there was any additional trim added by Magnavox.

The brochure page that Mr. Mogul provided does say it was available in other colors. My guess it came in blue, green, brown, and maybe black with accent trim to match. Your idea for colors does sound cool and it is yours to do with what you want. I say go for it!

Bill

[hermitcrab]

I am surprised more speakers mounted vertically don't have a voice coil rub ...after years and years you'd think the spider would sag with just moisture or humidity in the air... has that issue with a fisher woofer... the speaker spider ever so slightly warped causing a rub at low volume..

[TC Chris]

I am surprised more speakers mounted vertically don't have a voice coil rub ...after years and years you'd think the spider would sag with just moisture or humidity in the air... has that issue with a fisher woofer... the speaker spider ever so slightly warped causing a rub at low volume..

So the remedy here is to rotate the speaker 180 degrees, right?

Chris Campbell

[hermitcrab]

Guess I never thought about doing that... quit making sense ...

[electra225]

One possible issue when it comes to rotating the speaker 180 is that the wiring connections may not work. Rotating the speaker does make sense, when you think about it.

I was looking thru my "stuff I KNOW I'll need" pile and may have found a correct 45 adapter for this record player. The original round one is no longer available, so they make a flat one to replace it. I have the flat model for a 4" spindle. It's worth a try.....

[Hi-Fi-Mogul]

I was looking thru my "stuff I KNOW I'll need" pile and may have found a correct 45 adapter for this record player. The original round one is no longer available, so they make a flat one to replace it. I have the flat model for a 4" spindle. It's worth a try.....

Gary at V of Music does have the V-M round adapter.
They're pricey, but they look great.

I've got numerous of these adapters, not pretty, but functional,
if you would like one, Greg.

When the paint starts to come off of them, a sanding off of
the old paint is necessary for the 45 to drop.
The semi-flaking paint makes the adapter diameter a bit too
wide.

[electra225]

Thanks for the kind offer, Mr. Mogul. I thought I read on Gary's website that the round adapter was no longer available. I have a large order to go in to him for this and other projects.

Now from the "I think I need to find another hobby" department.......

I noticed when I did my evaluation that the little speaker didn't do much. I changed the crossover cap and found that procedure brought the 4" speaker to life. I have been enjoying this record player, playing some of my old 78's. I have found that the big speaker is going to have to be repaired. The more I tinkered, the worse it got. I put the chassis/speaker assembly back into the cabinet. The little speaker quit working. I have had the chassis out of this thing a dozen times. I have soldered connections, checked everything I know to check. The little speaker refuses to work with the chassis in the cabinet. I can have it working fine, but when it get it almost back in the cabinet, the little speaker cuts out. None of the wires are in a bind that I can see. I even removed the panel in front of the changer so I could watch the wires. The little speaker refuses to work in the cabinet. The 8" big speaker will have to be repaired, since the spare speakers I have are completely round and won't clear the chassis. The one in there is probably called a square basket. The metal basket is not perfectly round.

Edit......

I just had an "ah-ha" moment. Methinks the problem with the little speaker lies in the external speaker connections. I was tinkering around with those speaker connections with a jumper lead. I touched a terminal and the little speaker started working. Fiddling with that connection would cause the little speaker to cut in and out. I need to remove the board it's mounted on and investigate further. I may eliminate the external speaker connection. I'll never use it and if it's causing an issue, I don't need it. Stand by.

I have also decided to try my hand at Tolex. I want to do the cabinet in red and black with off-white interior. All the Magnavox record players of that vintage I've seen have dark brown stencil on the inside of the lid, with off-white motor board and a two-tone brown and off-white overarm and tonearm. I plan to leave the motor board like it is, then repaint the tone arm and overarm. This thing is going to be really cool when I get it done.

[TC Chris]

I just had an "ah-ha" moment. Methinks the problem with the little speaker lies in the external speaker connections. I was tinkering around with those speaker connections with a jumper lead. I touched a terminal and the little speaker started working. Fiddling with that connection would cause the little speaker to cut in and out.

There is almost always an explanation that is perfectly clear once you figure it out. Before then, it's a puzzle.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Yeah, BUT......

I was SUPPOSED to be fixing it. Why did it cut out the little speaker and not both of them? Part of the explanation is that the big speaker is wired directly to the output transformer, the little speaker positive terminal is wired thru the external speaker switch, then thru the crossover cap. There are two terminals on the external speaker switch that are internally shorted together. The ONLY theory I can come up with is that there is corrosion in that shorting lug that is somehow killing the little speaker. Who knows how long it's been since this record player was used on a regular basis. Freaky things happen to stuff when it sets, unused. You think you have it fixed until you run it for a bit. Then other things break. You keep going until nothing else breaks in a given amount of time. If and when I refinish this cabinet, there will be an extended test period before I assemble the amp chassis back into the cabinet. Knowing me, I'll forget something major, then have to take a restored record player apart to lick my calf over. Been there, done that, still have the T-shirt........