A complete plumbing job.

[Hydrolastic]

Hello Guys. Last year there were a couple of events here in Seattle that have shown a couple of defects in the new/old house my wife and I purchased in 2019. The house built in 1952 has no real issues it would seem from all appearances. except there is a storage area in the garage that was removed and the top part of it is open to the attic. When it's closed up the garage got so hot the door would warp and you could not open or close it agian. We had that Heat dome event (107 degrees) and it was intolerable in that section of the house. I finally figured out the problem so I am fixing it this summer.
A couple of months ago we had a freezing event and a hose bib burst not that big a deal but when the plumber came they started taking a closer look the previous owner had done a complete plumbing job but three plumbers have looked at it now all with the same diagnosis. remove almost all of it! keeping just what is in the wall in the upstairs shower. Also what's in the wall behind the kitchen sink. But that is not the worst of it! The drain pipes are the real problem as they are 1 1/4 galvanized steel and have almost closed up with rust. all the drains are slow and back up they gurgle when being used and the smell sometimes from the kitchen sink will gag you! This also happens when the dishwasher is used. In order to get to the plumbing 3 access area will need to be opened up in 6" of very hard concrete. yes it is 6" thick. I pointed it out to the plumber and he said "no problem he uses a Hilti TE 3000 jackhammer!" https://youtu.be/O0LA7LISgTA He said it so powerful it doesn't even crack the surrounding concrete. Idk how that works but I don't really want to know. I was going to start with the bathroom sink line here is a photo of it. Its hooked up temporarily into the vent line. Also we are looking to move out of the house for at least two weeks probably a month if I am realistic about it. Its a big job and it going to cost a fortune! The stereos are going to be slowed down except for one item but thats another subject. Hydro. BTW the lower family room will have no work done in it. So the consoles won't move.

[electra225]

When we bought our first house in Phoenix, it had all galvanized pipes in it. Before we sold the house 20 years later, we had replaced all the sewer pipes from the house to the street, replaced all the water pipes with sweat copper, and had replaced all the irrigation pipes with plastic. We couldn't get a permit to install a swimming pool until the water piping was done. IIRC, in 1990, the "re-plumb" cost almost $5,000. Code is allowing the use of PEX around here now. You get a choice when you buy a new house. PEX is cheaper, but I like sweat copper. I'm not sure I want a joint in a wall like you have with PEX. We have friends whose house developed a leak in a PEX line in an upstairs wall while they were away for the summer. IT leaked all summer and caused almost $50,000 worth of damage to their home. Good luck with the plumbing repair.

[William]

Aaron, I'm am sorry you are facing this dilemma. Surprises like this are never fun, and, usually something that is not found during home inspections. I send good thoughts your way, and hope what you what you are about to go thru is far less than what you are expecting. Good luck!

Bill

[hermitcrab]

Pex is easy to work with , but I never trusted the clamps to hold the fittings ... my manufactured home is all pex , but after 25 years ...no problems yet ... now they push those shark bite connectors to use with them , only failure we have had are the cheapo 1/2 turn valves they use... they snap and break and you can't shut your water off except at the main incoming line...

[electra225]

The water we have here is horrible. You can't drink it, it tastes so bad. It will eat up all your fixtures. Some type of water treatment system is almost mandatory. It will corrode the joints in PEX and make them leak.

[Hydrolastic]

Hello all, So last month I kind of disappeared I was looking at how to fix all of the plumbing problems and realized that they all added up to a complete plumbing replacement. So we now have a plumbing contractor had them checked out and I have interviewed him. Everything seems good at this point. But this is a lot of money. At least for me. One of the ways I can save money is to clear the house of anything that might be in the way so everything we wanted to save has gone to the Family room where the stereos are. So many boxes you can't see any of the stereos except the 60 concert grand which I have been using daily. It literally rocks the entire house.
So every day after work I have been doing something to prepare. I have been pulling down drywall, old insulation, carpet, flooring. My dads old 6' x 8' trailer gets loaded up and goes to the dump. or goodwill a couple of times a week. One of the issues with the plumbing has been the old repairs by other owners of the house and in the ceiling I came across a section of pipe left over from a old repair.

IMG_8457.jpeg (61.04 KiB) Viewed 3919 times

This is a old 1/2 " galvanized steel pipe that was cut out in the 90's (guessing). There is a lot of this still in the house. Lots to do as I am building a wood ramp to go over the stairs to the back the house as there is no way to get a wheelbarrow back there. Let alone a cement mixer or the concrete. I would really rather be doing fun stuff. like get the stereo's going again. Hydro

[TC Chris]

Those old reminders of former owners are fun. My Mom's house was built in 1922, about the time the city was completing its water system. Water had been uncertain before that so her house was built with probably 2 cisterns (can't locate evidence of the second one that served a pump in the laundry room, but it must be out under some concrete). My house in Lansing had an old cistern too, for the same reason, and by my time it had become a basement storeroom. The house I grew up in had hot water radiator heat. The original boiler must have been a gravity-flow device, There was an abandoned overflow water tank in the attic to keep it topped off. By the time my parents bought the house it had a pumped circulation system and a water feed to the city supply, so the attic tank was disconnected. My little summer cottage has a capped pipe in the crawl space that must be the driven well that served the pitcher pump right over it in the kitchen. The pump was in the outbuilding by the time we arrived, because city water had come along in the '40s. My parents did have to add the hot water heater, however, and a shower. Such luxuries!

Figuring out what all those old plumbing devices were for, and when, is interesting.

Chris Campbell

[Firedome]

It's stuff like this why my Dad always maintained "buy new". So many unknowns with old houses, my present 1955 ranch has had and will need plumbing updates to it's copper and galvanized. . I"m totally sold on PEX and if water is iffy or corrosive, all the more reason. Copper will corrode, out 1st house by the time it was 20 yrs old was developing pin-holes in the copper supply all over the place. One other nice thing about PEX is in cold climates it can freeze without bursting, my cousin's VT place in the same lake community as ours had a burst copper pipe this Spring, but PEX can expand somewhat when it freezes without breaking. VT allowed PEX starting in 2001 and our place has now gone thru 14 years of up to minus 25 below winters and occasional 90+ summer spells without any problem.

[electra225]

Code around here specifies copper pipes. I understand some of the newer houses have Pex as an option. The attics get so hot I'd be afraid of PEX out here myself. Water softeners help with keeping corrosion to a minimum. The water out here is horrible. We have a friend who put a "bootleg" PEX ice line to his new refrigerator. IT broke over the winter and did several thousand dollars damage to his house, not covered by insurance due to his using PEX for the ice line.

[William]

I have mixed emotions on what to use. My house is all copper and copper was used in the maze of water lines for the boiler. But the in-floor lines that were used for the radiant in-floor hot water heat are a blue PEX type of product. So far, fingers crossed, all is well.

One thing to consider Mr. Hydro, once this is all done you will have good plumbing and you will no longer need to worry about plumbing problems. I wish you the best during this very stressful time.

Bill

[Firedome]

I'd suspect that code there specifying CU supply lines might have something to do with the fact that AZ is ground zero for the copper extraction and refining industry, but maybe that's just me being the cynic. Many states have allowed Pex for 20-25 years.

[Hydrolastic]

Ok a little respite this morning. Tomorrow is the big day, The start of the plumbing job! I have moved everything out of the way into the stereo room, boxes piled high. The little apartment downstairs has been gutted for access to all the drain plumbing. Two bedrooms have had portions of drywall removed for access. Permit is in place. The power in the house is ungrounded two prong so I have a power panel I plug into the 220 that supports the power needs. I will be removing the dryer vent hose today and removing doors so they don't get ruined from all the concrete removal. I have a wood ramp I built over the stairs that allows for a wheelbarrow to get to the back of the house. I also removed/broke a picture window so stuff can be moved in and out easier. In part I have made it as easy as possible for the plumbers to remove all of the pressure and drain plumbing with minimal concern for damage. I expect two weeks of work with a two man crew. The jackhammering is going to be the biggest deal as the concrete is 6" thick with the bathroom being the majority of the damage. Two 4'x4' areas and a 15' trench. Also included will be a main sewer backflow valve. I will update in a few days.

[TC Chris]

Sounds like no fun at all, but the advantage of such projects is that it feels so good when it's all done.

Chris Campbell

[Hydrolastic]

Thank you William/Chris, You have hit the nail on the head. In our old house we had a very similar situation but considerably smaller in scope. We suffered with slow drains and no water pressure for 15 years. We had it fixed when we moved out!
When I realized we had a similar situation in the new house. I didn't want to get back to constant maintenance. Our old house didn't have a dishwasher but the new house does and the smell from it when it runs is horrible. The tub doesn't drain and the sinks make a weird gurgling noise. I have never used the shower downstairs. We just don't want to do this over again. This time I am fixing it first. Hydro

[electra225]

Good luck with your project. I'll keep a good thought. I've been there and know it's no fun. All the pain will soon be forgotten when your plumbing works like it should and you don't have to worry about it.

[Hydrolastic]

Hello Guys. The Plumbing is finished! Inspected and paid for. Wife and I spent the month of June prepping for it, Half the month of July NOT living in the house. And now cleaning up. The small mother in law apt downstairs is pretty much devastated. It will not be renovated at this time as I have to recover from the plumbing first. However the MIL plumbing is fixed and I can install the shower and vanity when the time comes. I rebuilt the wall I removed because the bulk of the plumbing was under it. I plan on leaving the backyard access ramp in place as I will use it to move heavy items. There will be some concrete work done there in a couple of years from now. The rec room where the stereo's live will be slowly cleared out, hopefully this month. Photos are just a little bit of the plumbing there is a lot more all over the house as all of the drain plumbing and all of the pressure plumbing was replaced. Hydro

[Hydrolastic]

More Photo's

[Hydrolastic]

More Photo's

[Hydrolastic]

This is the dog wash shower valve I put over the utility sink to a hose bib outside. Also a bit of the old hose bib that busted at 3 in the morning this winter and the frost free hose bib that replaced it.

[electra225]

That was quite the project!.....

It appears that you guys had the mess pretty much under control. I realize that when they were jackhammering there was a considerable more mess. Putting stuff back like it was is three times the work of taking it all apart. I wish you guys all the best during the process.