Stirring the console changer pot...

[Firedome]

I've often felt that Collaro, Glaser-Steers, V-M, &c, by about the late '50s, were sort of a bean-counter dictated compromise choice for MOL and better consoles that would have been better served by Garrard players that just seemed better designed and built, in my experience. Of course TOL models should have had a Dual, Miracord, or Garrard Type A... imo at least. Arm construction and balancing, stylus pressure, motor type, general build quality wasn't all that great on V-Ms and similar peers.

I have a 1964 Garrard model 50 on slide-out drawer out of a lower-mid grade Fisher console that is completely original and works perfectly, and an AT-6 in my '62 Dumont the same: an untouched and unserviced original that still works great. Can't say the same about just about any other-make changer of that vintage that I've come across. Your experiences...what say ye? YMMV?

[electra225]

I absolutely detest even the idea of working on a record changer. I put them on the list of things I don't mess with, along with two-cycle engines and guitar amps. My experience with VM has been generally good. It's hard to kill one, they work forever, they are relatively easy for even a dunce like me to keep somewhat working. I have had zero experience with Garrard. I built a Miracord in 1963 for a 4-H project, never really liked it. I don't remember the model number anymore. I put several BSR changers in console radios to replace a 78-rpm plow, and always had good luck with them. My experience with Collaro has not been all that great, due to my lack of knowledge about tuning them up or how they work. That's on me.

[William]

If I open the hood on a console and find a VM changer, I'm happy. The 1200 and 1201 series changers were built tuff, they ran a long time, and are easy to service. Of course that is MHO. That's not to say I would walk away from a console that was different brand, I just like VM because of the serviceability. And, Gary having all the parts.

Bill

[hermitcrab]

I think the same about changers used by sears/silvertone ... specifically crescent changers of the 60's/ 70's ...I have yet to find one with real platter bearings instead of riding on a plastic washer , and the plastic wheels and gears the centers wow out causing stalling and general lousy performance...and the idler never retracts, it lays against the platter in the off position... I'll take a VM over them anyday...

[Firedome]

Some of the above changers seem quire durable and functional, but not sure about repairing them. I'd be leery of using some of them in terms of preserving my LPs, as I like to run no more than 1.5 to 2.5 grams of stylus pressure. The mid-level Garrards are ok with that using good but relatively inexpensive mag cartridges or even some ceramics at around 2.5 to 3g.

It seems not all that many non-TOL consoles came with Garrard changers, and TOL console models would invariably contain an RC 88 or Type A, if a Garrard was even specified at all. Our '62 or '63 Dumont is a lowish-mid grade model, with a smallish SE 6BQ5 amp/tuner and rather ordinary 10',6", and 3" cone speakers, but it does sport a nice Garrard AT-6 changer, which seems a bit of an anomaly for a console of that class. Can anyone relate seeing otherlower and mid-level consoles with a Garrard? A 40 or 50 model sold in the same price range in the Allied catalog as some of the changers discussed above, and my model 50 did come out of one of Fisher's less expensive consoles for 1964 or '65.

[electra225]

I have been a stickler for not playing my "good" LP's on anything but a lightweight magnetic cartridge. Now, who cares? As long as a changer is not a plow, what am I saving my LP's for? Nobody will give two hoots about them after I'm gone. So I put them on CD before they get all scratched up. Then I'm going to enjoy them on whatever I have that will play them. I've never had trouble with a VM 1200 series changer being hard on records if the needle is good and the tonearm weight remains reasonable. I haven't had enough experience with Collaro to say how hard they are on records, but the wife has a bunch of old mono albums played on a Collaro 456 her parents had, played a million times, but they are still in nice shape for being almost 70 years old.

[hermitcrab]

My Dual 1009 in my fisher will track down to 1/2 a gram ... but the slightest vibration and it skips and jumps all over the place...I run all my consoles in the 3 to 5 range and the albums play fine. even new pressings play OK in that range ..

[Firedome]

1/2 gram is too low in that Dual. I run my 1009 + Shure M95ed at 1.5 g and my Phillips with Micro-Acoustics 2002E cart at the same.

I'm concerned with preserving the grooves of the still-good records we have in the best shape possible because I think they sound far better as analog vinyl than digitized onto CD and I want to continue experiencing that. A few years ago when I got the Phillips + MA cart I hadn't listened to vinyl for at least 15 years. I played a near new LP of "Magical Mystery Tour" that I also had on CD and was flabbergasted at the incredible difference, how much better it sounded. As long as my hearing holds out it's something I'd like to experience at least once in a while. However many of my old LPs are already so well used after 50+ years that it wouldn't make any difference, so those I play on the changers that are not so gentle with them.

[electra225]

I have one of those "go-fast" DJ turntables with a Stanton 500 cartridge. It tracks at 3/4 of a gram. You could set dynamite off under that TT and it wouldn't skip.

[Motorola minion]

The changer I prefer to work changes often and also, at one time I avoided them much like electra225 prefers to. I later tried to do as little as possible to make them at least play, but I had to change my attitude after callbacks resulted from my half-baked approach. Mainly because not enough parts were replaced or at least removed and degunked.

Garrard AT 6 is OEM in a Sylvania SC541 I have, a mid priced console using SE 7868 outputs. I have little experience with Garrard A and AT6 but will gain much more as I work through my three Fisher consoles. Garrard seemed to pride itself on speed regulation and heavy platter mass.

Dual of Western Germany I'm most familiar with, having also serviced HH Scott receiver/consoles they were often sold with. My folks had a 1009 and I later acquired other Duals, knowing the only real weak spot is cartridge head-shell wiring. Yes, they did jump a bit in a busy room if tracking was set to 1 gram or less. I have been advised not to work on really old Duals for lack of parts needed.

Collaro changers are common Pre-1961 and the generous amount of lube will catch and retain dirt so, disassembly is recommended as a minimum to remove the cycle wheel which will solve most issues. The motors are 4-pole like later Magnavox Micromatics and must be dissassembled..

Magnavox from 1961 Custom and later Micromatics got easier to clean/service. Cycle wheel, motor and platter bearings all get the business. I first learned the right way to do these as I worked for a dealer who sold Magnavox, pre-NAP.

BSR eventually, at some point after V-M stopped supplying in the mid 70s, made all the record changers for Mag, Zenith and even RCA so I had to learn them as well. These used infamous honey-looking glue that hardens and results in frozen-on platters, etc. inspiring videos dealing specifically with the issue (see radiotvphononut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKkFLC9 ... &index=545 )

RCA, V-M are similar and require varying amounts of work, depending what is frozen and what still operates. Nearly every changer needs a refurbished idler pulley, changer slide disassembled/cleaned plus bearing and shaft cleaning of common shaded-pole, single winding Alliance-made motor. RCA's have motor mounts that dry up and control rod grommets that fall apart, preventing operation.

Webcor I have no experience with yet I have a 63 Silvertone and a 48 Magnavox Windsor that uses these old work horses.

German players from Grundig, Telefunken and Perpetuum Ebner (P-E) also used the same amber-colored "glubricant" BSR did.

Removing changers from a cabinet is also a common problem if you don't know most RCA's have two 5/16" hold downs, accessible thru holes in the metal platter, under the mat. V-M and Magnavox are easy, with flip-open retainers. Sears has a push-down button that can only be released by pulling up hard on the whole changer.

[electra225]

We have considerable talent on this forum when it comes to record changers. I'm hoping some of that talent rubs off on me, so I'll have a more productive attitude when it comes to servicing record changers. Hint, hint.......

[William]

Thanks, Dave, for the changer info. The only changer I'm comfortable working on is VM. The rest scare me. I have done minor changer work on GE changers, BSR, and Webcor. I have been lucky with my Maggie stuff and the Collaros that are in them. I have made them all work by just doing a motor service. One of these days, my luck is going to run out and that one Collaro will fall in my lap and then the fun will begin.

Bill