Butchered Concert Grand

[electra225]

We have discussed this poor old thing before. Since I can't really do much else, I have been trying to figure out how much it would cost to rehab this thing. Missing its back, turntable, glass sliders and legs. There is a huge gouge in the edge of the cabinet top. The price is lowered, but still way too high, considering all it needs. It seems a shame that this thing may possibly face a fate less than desirable to those of us who appreciate Concert Grands.

I contacted a glass shop that does custom work, one we have used in the past. I showed them a picture of the sliders and the approximate dimensions. They want $750 to make the tempered glass, reverse grained sliders. This same shop would do the wood for the legs, another $500 out of hardwood. The back I have a pattern for, so I figure $100 should get that, by the time I rent equipment to make the back. The turntable is another kettle of fish altogether. A remote control S-600 is not going to be that easy to find. Then there is the remote control. That thing might be another $400. So we have $1750 in parts, plus the turntable and what it costs to refinish the cabinet. I'm figuring $750 to refinish the cabinet then $250 for a changer. Then, shipping from the east coast out here, plus crating, another $750. Then, the "upgraded amps" mean "hack" to me, so we have to figure going thru the entire instrument again. $500 in parts if I do it myself. So I would be in this thing $4000 plus the purchase price, currently at $1675, at least $1000 too much money. There is no way in the world this thing is worth $5675 to me or anybody else. That would be break-even price, BTW. I was trying to figure out a way to save this instrument in one piece. I don't see any practical way, even if I got it for free to make this work, or make sense financially. This is a 1961 model.

[Hydrolastic]

Hello, Its been run at least once through the cycle and he reduces it each time. Till someone buys it. it will be interesting to see what the price is, when it is sold. Idk how to justify any cost in repairs on the consoles.
I dont even look at the money spent so far on the Ebony Continental otherwise it would never get finished. I have had the pre amp and amp at Golden radio repair since Christmas and I have no idea what its going to cost I am sure it will be a lot. What do you do just stop? Then I would end up with a half done console. Its not fun spending money unnecessarily but it all needs to be done. Might as well enjoy the improvement at each step.
In a way this concert grand is in a good place because it is desirable and somebody will eventually restore it. The price just has to get low enough to where the math kinda works out. Last summer I bought some CG speakers from a local guy. Later I saw his original post and it "was" a complete pretty nice 59 traditional CG not super nice but not a parts console by any means. parted out it was. So if sold too high it will not be worth enough to restore sold too low it would have to be parted out to get ahead. Hydro

[electra225]

Hi, Hydro! I don't plan on making any money when I restore something. It is a labor of love, something I want to do for the challenge of fixing it and having something different. I like to try to set a budget for restoration costs. If you don't, you may spend silly money that ruins the final product for me. Restoring a Concert Grand that appears to have gone thru some type of physical trauma, witness the missing legs and the gouge in the cabinet. It might have even been partially parted out, witness the missing changer and the missing glass sliders. Those items don't just "disappear". Restoring such an instrument may require more than the usual amount of dedication. I believe the seller may have gotten in over his head having work done on it , then realizing he still had a parts unit on his hands. I don't know what it will sell for, either. My guess is it might very likely be sold in parts, rather than whole. Nobody wants the amps. The tuner is worthless unless somebody needs that specific one. There is no changer, no remote. The cabinet is pretty firewood, unfortunately. What is there to sell in the way of parts? A sad fact is that Magnavox bi-amps aren't good for much except being used in a Magnavox bi-amp instrument. I look at this stuff like I used to when I restored cars. Figure out what it would cost to restore it, double that, then add a thousand dollars when I was doing a car. Unfortunately, in my way of thinking, this Concert Grand may be a desirable model, but you can buy a nice one for less than the seller is asking for this one. This one isn't worth my time. If I was closer and if he gave it to me, it would still be a stretch for me.

BTW, did you ever find a reject button for your Concert Grand?

[Firedome]

Yep it's just like restoring a vintage car, unless it's a super valuable item when done, there's no way to make the numbers work. I knew it going into my Cutlass resto, so it doesn't hurt too much because I just really like the car, however it'd be nuts to do it as a business proposition.

The only way to make this CG work would be to screw on aftermarket legs, forgo the glass and remote, drop in a non-orig changer, make the amps + tuner reliable w/ new caps &c, fill in the gouges cosmetically, and enjoy it on it's own merits as a functioning but non-original CG knowing that you've saved it from a worse fate, and forget about a correct restoration to as-new. It's not a Duesenberg.

[electra225]

There is really no way to restore a car properly and not be upside down in it financially. I did a rotisserie frame off restoration on a '61 LeSabre four door sedan. Plain Jane as they come. It had power steering and brakes, Dynaflow, radio and heater, but that was about it. Tan with a white top, with brown, tan and white interior. It even had crank windows, for pity's sake. The guy who owned it wouldn't let me load on any options. I wanted to put in a 401 and dual exhausts to give it some punch, but no. That wasn't what the guy wanted. He wanted it like it was when it was new, which was good enough for him. The guy put almost $100,000 into a ten thousand dollar (on a good day) '61 LeSabre four door sedan. He was/is still thrilled with the car. I see him at car shows frequently and he is the proudest guy there. That old '61 LeSabre may have been the most solid, straight car I ever restored. It had been well-driven and well-cared-for. It looked pretty good, really, when he brought it in. The 364 was getting tired as it had well over 200,000 miles on it. The guy bought it new, and loved it from day one. He had a good job, saved up money all those years to have his old Buick done to the highest quality he could get. There was a '61 Invicta Custom available at the time and I almost begged him to do it instead. Nope. He wanted his LeSabre done.

I always try to set a budget for a project, a discretionary sum, a limit to what I would spend. If I don't do that, I tend to go crazy and overspend. Then that ruins the finished product for me, since I'm cheap. The money is made in the buy. Where you are when you get the item home. If you overspend buying it, you are done before you start, according to the way I was taught. If a person gave even $200 for this beat-up Concert Grand, he'd be too deep into it when he got it home. If you ignore its virtues, ie its glass sliders and changer, then you are not getting the benefit of it's being a complete Concert Grand. Like putting an LS6 in my old Buick because it's cheaper than rebuilding the 401. That 401 is part of what makes it a '63 Buick, a whole '63 Buick. There are probably ways one could cut costs on this CG and perhaps reach a compromise between completeness and cost. For me, $3500 total would be the end of the world. I'm not sure I could cut $2000 on this project.

[Firedome]

Can't really speak to CGs, I just don't know them well but I'm sure you're right on that. It wouldn't be a real CG but could still sound good and be saved.

As to cars one could be OK only the car is worth enough when done, and done right. The '57 300C convert I had once would cost about 100-120K to restore today to a 99 point show car, but they typically bring over $200k to as high as almost 300. I paid 5k for it in 1985 and at the time could have fully restored it for $10 grand. Another one I just flipped untouched... woulda coulda shoulda, I should have bit the bullet right then.

I know a guy in VT who restores European exotics, they often bring $1 Mil+ for many of them. Most are done to order, from all over the world. Peter is a super nice guy, he'll show around anyone who shows up. I lived about 15 mi away and bought an '66 Alfa Duetto basket case from him in 2001. Flipped it untouched 6 mo.later.

Interesting story how he started: Peter grew up on a central VT farm and is a super-unassuming guy. Like most farm kids he was a good mechanic from the start. A rich New Yorker moved nearby and had an old' 50s Ferrari that hadn't run in years (this was in the late '60s). Peter got it and got running, as Peter says all engines are essentially the same, it's just details. After other jobs he decided to try his own business, the word got around that he was good at unusual cars and the rest is history! It's telling how down-to-earth he is by the fact that Peter's own small collection consists exclusively of restored (by him) Oliver tractors, no cars, his true love is farm equipment! But check out on his website some of the cars that have passed thru his hands, waaay out of my league!

http://www.rpmvt.com/

[electra225]

I know a guy in Wisconsin who restores International Harvester/Farmall tractors. You might be surprised how that once reasonable hobby has gotten more expensive.

[William]

I know a guy that paid 100 grand for a restored farm tractor. I can't remember what brand, but, it was supposed to be rare.

Bill

[electra225]

Probably one those old Minnie Molines with the cab and fenders on the front wheels. Comfortractor, I think they called them. Those are probably the most valuable tractor I can think of. Probably more of a toy than a tractor, truth be told.