From the 30s: Fred Astaire

[Firedome]

I disagree Chris, yes there's great diversity but it isn't about adults, if they want to hear about wet ass pussy let 'em, but kids are followers and it's marketing driven to appeal to kid audiences who think they are emulating adults. Kids are peer-followers, and it's only about monetizing (a disgusting term if ever there was one) them. Have you actually seen the so-called "lyrics" (talk about ironic) of "WAP"? or seen in print some of the more vile, yet unfortunately very popular, gangsta-thug rap of the last 10-15 years? This is what most kids like. This isn't Elvis the Pelvis" or "Sexual Healing" here or frivolous old-fartism. I taught for decades and know what kids listen to and watch: "music" and media that is grossly misogynistic, violent, degrading and, unfortunately, pervasive. Kids at ever younger ages are listening to shite like Wap because their friends and siblings do and it's about "what's cool", they couldn't care less about what's good. Declining standards may have been lamented for a very long time, as I mentioned, but to that exact point I think the Russo quote is apropos. Just where does it stop?

With 3 kids, 2 grand-kids, more possibly to come, to me these trends are cause for despair, yet clear and possibly unstoppable, to potentially tragic effect. Standards that continue to fall have real consequences, a descent to ever-lower and more crass cultural and societal cues, a lowering of ethics and morals that is clearly abetted and encouraged by constant exposure of the young by an ever more irresponsible and greedy media, and cause for great concern, not to be dismissed lightly. Who will be, and as importantly, are right now, the role models and " influencers" of the young?

I'm no prude or fundamentalist, far from it, I'm an agnostic/scientist, but I also have children and grandchildren that I care about, and I personally have seen over time a constant gradual decline in behavior and academics in the classroom and on the street. You can see it everywhere: in dress, deportment, and language wherever you go. David Foster Wallace used to begin his freshman lectures with the importance of learning and using proper English. Can you imagine that? The negative effect of the continuous barrage of garbage that kids see, hear, and unfortunately emulate everyday cannot be understated or ignored. To me it's far more than just a matter of musical taste or preference, it's a profound concern about the world that those coming after me will inhabit. Where's that Joe DiMaggio when we need him?

[electra225]

I agree Roger with most of what you are saying. My great grandmother was a school teacher and would be rapping knuckles until she dropped if she had to tolerate the disrespect and right down vulgarity of kids nowadays. The girls have bigger potty mouths than the guys. They come into the store dressed in a manner that my grandmother wouldn't let my mom go to the field to work dressed that shabbily. I remember a time that if a guy was out in public with no belt on his trousers, that was a big deal. If a girl was seen in public with even a speck of dirt on her white PF Flyers, that was a big deal. When I took my wife home after a date, I know the first thing her dad noticed was how wrinkled her clothes were. We could polish the leather in the back seat of my Buick and my girlfriend, now wife, could go home to her dad without a wrinkle. The problem I see with the youth nowadays is their lack of ambition, their belief that the future won't include them and their lack of respect. Calling each other the "B" word. Dropping the "f" bomb with every other word. They have manners, all shabby. They'll walk in front of you. They won't hold the door open, they just let it slam in your face. You can leave your cellphone on the breakroom table, and it will still be there, where you left it, three hours later. But they will steal their lunch from the store. They will steal video games, anything really that's not bolted down. They have been taught that if a big company owns it, it's not really stealing. That big company is faceless, so they can't be victims of theft. A dozen of them will live in a two-bedroom apartment and ride an electric scooter to work. Owning a car costs too much money. They pool their money to buy a 75" TV to play games on, then stream what they watch on their phones. They go into debt to buy the latest version of phone with the premium plan. They spend all their money on communication, yet communication is their weakest trait. They can't spell, don't use correct grammar. They talk "text" talk. They do not write nor read cursive. They do math on their phone. They can't do even simple sums in their head. Life is going to smack these people up the side of the head one of these days.

[Firedome]

"Life is going to smack these people up the side of the head one of these days."

Yer darn tootin'. The chickens always come home to roost.

[TC Chris]

I'm not sure we should be judging our civilization by the worst examples or the inhabitants of the left end of the bell-shaped curve. Those are the one we notice, of course, but there are a lot of good kids out there. They are usually far advanced in knowledge and accomplishments from where I was at the same age (I claim late-bloomer status). When I see all the things they're studying and doing after school, I feel like a slug.

There was a folkie duo, Lou & Peter Berryman, that came through every year. She as a tiny thing with a big accordion on a pole so she didn't fall over. They had a song that contained this lyric: "I don;t care how you young people talk to each other, but I don't want to hear you use the F-word with your mother." Most people seem to be able to constrain their use of the word to appropriate circumstances. I was a volunteer science ins tructor for the local schoolship program (marine science on a sailing schooner) for over 20 years. The kids were mostly 6th-8th grade, but we had the occasional group of high school kids. I don't think I ever heard "F" once. Maybe it's because this was a new and interesting experience and for most, being on a boat was foreign territory, but still.

The world does change. A newspaper story today had a photo of a 1930s unemployment line. The guys were all wearing overcoats & fedoras and most wore ties. When my Dad was in college, the guys wore coats & ties. I was in the jeans generation. I wear jeans to work even when I'm going to be on a Zoom video court matter.

I'll lament crummy music ad bad lyrics with the rest of you--remember, I stated this thread about bad new music--but I'm an optimist about the young folks and the way they'll handle our world. And maybe someday some of them will hear "People Will Say We're in Love" from Oklahoma, as I just did, ad think "Wow, that's really good,."

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

It might also be a case of our minds seeing ourselves at a younger age, then realizing kids are still making the same dumb mistakes. Maybe we feel bad for the way they act, since we did the same thing. Perhaps the youth have trouble knowing how to act since we who are older set such a poor example. I remember grandpa and Uncle Fort talking about the "knothead kids" they hired to help them pick tobacco. I mean, they were paying 75 cents an hour and all the well water and cold watermelon you could eat. You got to work your butt off for 12 or 14 hours a day. What was not to love? I got to do the same job for free.....

[Firedome]

Of course there's still good kids, they were the reasons for teaching. But over time there were less pf them to keep one motivated. Unfortunately that is curve is flattening.

The good news is there certainly good stuff out there for those that seek it.
The Burns Sisters grew up here in Bing and live in Ithaca, have toured with Arlo Guthrie and
are often at Grassroots Festival put on by Donna the Buffalo in Trumansburg.
Their Dad was Mayor of Bingo in the '60; they're of my generation (Boomers).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hrrc8NU2AE

Here's another local guy that our hometown PBS station showcased recently, one of his recent, and unusual, projects,
a musical/historical account of one of the greatest steamship disasters in US history, one that I really enjoyed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFV9qperaGo