Cars from 1951 to 1972

[walyfd]

Yes, GM did well in 77. It was a salvation. I should have said early 70s up to kinda 76. I think the luxury field was decent but some of the other stuff... yikes... pintos, Vegas. Pacers... dear lord.

[electra225]

I was wrenching when the '77 to '80 cars came out. I remember Lincoln didn't decrease the size of the car much, but they put that anemic 400 in the big cars. The only good thing about those was that they used GM components. Power steering, air conditioning, smog pumps were all GM parts. They wouldn't get out of their own way. You could order a 460 until 1979, and that was a good idea. Some of the GM cars, particularly Buick LeSabre, got that puny little Pontiac 301. For some odd reason, GM chose that engine to use in the Turbo LeSabre. Horrible engine, no power. There was no way to tune that thing so it would run. My grandpa bought a new '78 Delta 88 with the 403 and an A6 compressor. It was a nice car, almost as plush as a 98. I have no idea why he didn't buy a 98. He had dual exhausts added, since he lived in Indiana and they didn't have smog tests. His still had the Turbo 400 trans, IIRC.

[electra225]

I found this video on YouTube and thought some of you might enjoy it. '73 Mercury Marquis Brougham with the optional 460 V-8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TozhHgimrV8

A '72 Chrysler Imperial, all black, gorgeous car. I don't remember these cars at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhQC6Qm5ZwI

[walyfd]

Those Imperials were so ugly to me. 69 to 73, I think they used that "style". Like the bathtub Packards, you like them or you don't. And the colors back then... they had the most repulsive pukey green metallic...

[William]

I would have to agree with you, Roger. My parents 1978 LeSabre Limited was a great car, except for the carb problem I mentioned earlier in this thread. It was comfortable, quiet, handled well, and road smoothly and with control. Fit and finish was not bad either. They never had any trouble with it, except the carb. They drove that car from 1978 until 1984 when they purchased a 1884 Buick Century Limited. That too, was a great care.

Bill

[Firedome]

Salvation is a good word for the '77s, it staved off the decline for a while. And when gas prices settled down around 1982/3, GM wisely delayed the big rwd car's predicted retirement, keeping some models until '90, and in revised (and ugly) form until '96. I didn't feel those were as good as the pre-'80 models in significant ways, but at least they were still available, along with a few rwd Cutlass Supremes &c.

One of GM's great sins in the early '70s onward was use of horrible molded plastic interior parts on things like door panels, B and C pillar covers, etc, along with increasingly flimsy and cheap looking instrument panels, an important aspect of quality and appearance to me. Some of these obstensibly luxurious cars had all molded plastic door panels with small strips of carpet glued along the bottom and a bit of upholstery along the top sill to try to cover up the acres of plastic somewhat. These plastics deteriorated, flaked, and discolored quickly. Mopar was guilty of over-plasticizing their interiors as well. Ford not so much, but their wallowing Marquis and LTD barges were torture to drive. These plastic bits were impossibly hard to repair and parts impossible to find. Our '78 Electra was ok as it was always garaged and sun only rarely touched those parts, but on our '79 out of Florida the red interior plastics on the door and B pillar just crumbled. Tried for several years to find good used or new parts and never found them. The rear fender extensions had also started to crack and break. '60s GM cars didn't even have these plastic excrescences and Mopar did a much better job of disguising them. Finally gave up and regretfully sold that otherwise lovely driving Electra because a shabby interior is not tolerable. A fine but flawed car ruined by crappy interior materials and lazy incorporation of federally dictated safety bumper requirements.

The '77 to 79s that we had were all powered by 350 or 403 Olds or 350 Buick engines. We had many of those excellent powerplants over 30 years or so, and every one of them was a superb and dependable performer. GM really failed when they started sticking Pontiac 301s and Chev SBs with some significant weaknesses in Buicks and Oldsmobiles. Olds and Buick buyers wanted a Rocket or real Buick engine under their hoods. If GM had left each division to determine it's own products and engines rather than surrendering to corporate control, things might have been different. While it started earlier in the 70s, Smith's big re-org in the mid '80s was the end of real GM imo.

[Firedome]

Thanks for those videoes Greg. I always liked the fuselage Imps myself, and owned a '69 Le Baron before all the aforementioned '70s GMs. It was imo let down by too much resemblance and parts sharing with New Yorkers, but was an excellent handling huge car with indomitable 440 power. The AirTemp auto air was complex and repair-prone, and the car not as quiet as a GM luxo-boat, but still very satisfying to own and drive.

I think one of the classiest luxury cars I've ever seen was a '70 Charcoal Gray black vinyl top Imperial owned by Dr Irving Taylor, the owner of Taylor Manor Hospital near Baltimore, a 90 bed private psychiatric institution now owned by Johns Hopkins/Sheppard Pratt. It was just a beautiful, clean, and understated car positively exuding class. He owned it well into the '80s as he felt that Cadillac and Lincoln were gaudy and there was no satisfactory replacement to be had. I'd be inclined to agree!

[Firedome]

So nice in dark colors especially formal black:

[William]

I have always liked Chrysler Imperials, starting in 1962 thru 1970. I think they were just classy cars and in a lot of ways more luxurious than Lincoln or Cadillac.

Bill

[electra225]

I never considered a Buick as being a big car. An Imperial, a Lincoln or a senior series Cadillac was a BIG car. How about a nice black Toronado?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194419765862?_ ... %7Ciid%3A1

[TC Chris]

A neighbor had a '65 Imperial, a nice dark green with black top. I drove to once when I was sent out to switch cars in the driveway. I was surprised to find that it was solid, quiet, and very competent. Chrysler must have had some suspension secrets. My Mom's '66 Plymouth Fury III wagon, a big car, was a delight to drive. It had none of the wallow that I associate with the large GM or Ford vehicles. I was always tempted to drive that one well beyond the speed limit, just because it felt fully under control.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

Torsion bars in the front with leaf springs in the rear with a unibody construction. Imperials were built well and chrysler was first with many options or the only company to offer some, like Mirror-Matic and hiway hifi. And the Ghia limousines were over the top.

[Firedome]

I've always considered the Electra and 98 to be as big and in the same vein as Cad, LeBaron and Lincoln,
it was all marketing with the latter 3 really.

The numbers tell the story, these are the standard models (not Fleetwood &c)

'65 Electra 225: 224" ' 71: 228" '75: 233"
'65 Cad S de V: 224" '71: 229" '75: 231"
'65 Imperial: 221" '71: 229" '75: 231"
'65 Olds 98: 223" '71: 227" '75: 232"
'65 Lincoln: 216" '71: 225" '75: 232"

all years about 80"+/- 1" width for all makes, wheelbase within an inch or 2.
weight also close usually within + or - 200/300lbs, again somewhat random.

So bigness is in the eye of the beholder, length and width is really a toss-up, Lincoln often smallest.
Some of the "lesser" makes were actually as big or even bigger as the "prestige" 3 at times.
Interesting stuff!

[walyfd]

I read somewhere when they were designing the suicide door lincoln, they were bending so badly that they had to beef up the body and shrink the wheelbase that the cars were shorter and heavier than the LTD and Mercury's. Especially bad were the convertible sedans in testing.

Owners complained the cars were smaller than other Fords that they were able to add a few inches of WB in '65.

The 61 - 64 were elegant cars. I always said they borrowed a lot of the style from the 57 Eldorado brougham...

[TC Chris]

The 61 - 64 were elegant cars. I always said they borrowed a lot of the style from the 57 Eldorado brougham...

Can't resist saying it again--those '61-'64 Lincolns were some of the most beautiful cars ever made. And watching the convertible top go up or down was entertainment, with all the little relays and motors doing their sequential thing.

Chris Campbell

[TC Chris]

We've been going through family papers. I found the sales invoice and window sticker for my grandfather's '65 Olds Delta 88 4-dr.sedan. The Turbohydramatic was an option ($242.10). C'mon, GM, how many Delta 88s did you sell without a THM? Did they even make a manual transmission other than the 4-spedd that was available for the Starfire? And PS and PB were options too. Would have been a better car WITHOUT the PB. They were extremely touchy and hard to modulate.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

Here's an imperial I'd trade my cadillacs for:: https://www.ebay.com/itm/165123590023?_ ... %7Ciid%3A1

My personal favorite is the '61 and '63. The '61 grille and headlamps were beautiful. The '63 roof was beautiful...

64 through 68, beautiful...such elegant luxury.

[electra225]

My uncle, 13 years my senior, always drove hot rod Pontiacs or Oldsmobiles all the time I knew him. He had a '53 Super 88 he ran white liquor with. The fastest car anywhere, even faster than grandpa's '37 Century. His wife was on him for driving "old beaters" so, in 1968, he went to Indianapolis and came home driving a new 1968 Imperial four door hardtop. Basically a Chrysler New Yorker with fancier trim, but what a car. His wife drove that car until he passed in 2003. It was a dark blue metallic with a black vinyl top and interior. It had a 440 V-8, limited slip rear end and dual exhausts, so it was pretty fast for such a big car.

[walyfd]

Do you remember the storage areas under the front door armrests? They were hinged and few people knew it.
And the brushed bronze dash and door trim that can't be replicated today....

[electra225]

I only rode in it a few times, and then usually in the back seat. I know it made my Electra look like a small car in comparison.