'55 Packard Patrician

[electra225]

This is a rather unfortunate video. The presenter is really not educated enough on any old car, let alone a Packard. Comparing a '55 Packard in any regard to a 3-series BMW is not a fair comparison. Try comparing it to a '55 Cadillac, or a '55 Lincoln, or a '55 Imperial and you'd have a more fair comparison. Saying a Packard drives like a locomotive is the height of ignorance. The only thing a Packard and a BMW have in common is that they both burn gasoline and they have each have four wheels. A Packard Patrician is not a race car. It does very well what it was intended to do. "Ask the man who owns one"......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmUJixqoUQM

[TC Chris]

I dunno... seems to me he is being fair. He wasn't saying that it should have been a BMW, just that tastes and standards in luxury cars have changed. And he's right: handling is not the strong suit of luxo-barges, it's cruising. They are not BMWs. I had to firm up the suspensions of my last two big American cars, the '61 Chevy and '65 Olds Starfire, and they still are not exactly rally cars. (Although the Chevy was less old-fashioned than I remembered). The '69 4-4-2 had more tolerable suspension design. My Ranger truck fits my notion of how a vehicle should feel--bumpy. It's not what Packard buyers expected. But that was 1955. This is almost 70 years later and our expectations have changed a lot. Today nobody would accept that Packard's handling. Today's luxo-barges typically handle with much more aplomb and agility, while still protecting sensitive butts from too many bumps.

And as to BMWs... I recall reading the comment, "Why are all BMW drivers assholes?" I grinned. Its because most of them are young-ish bankers who know nothing about driving but fancy themselves to be racecourse winners. Few of them have interests or talent beyond golf, and do not get me started on that. To me, those BMWs and Mercedes and Audis are boooooring. Well engineered, maybe. Well handing, maybe. But just no fun at all. My old red Ranger, with 4 cylinders of Ford power, is my favorite vehicle ever. Dependable, durable, civilized, comfortable, and economical. And for V-8 fun I can jump in the old Mustang and make noise.

Really, though, that Packard video acknowledges that it was good at what it sought to be, and that what it sought to be was not what we expect today. He was right.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Yeah but.......

I am personally a fan of how a BMW drives and handles. I own a "little brother" of a BMW and I can say, compared to my old Buick, it does EVERYTHING better than the Buick. It's faster, heads where you aim it, stops on a dime. You can go around a corner 40 mph and it doesn't even breathe hard. I feel every pebble in the road. Better at everything compared to the Buick except........being an old Buick.

I feel the guy missed the point. Lots of things have changed, allegedly for the better, since 1955. But would a Packard Patrician hold the same mystique if it was built to 2023 standards? Then how would someone who was familiar with a Packard Patrician evaluate a 3-series BMW? Rides hard, expensive, hard to get serviced, no boulevard ride? The more things change, the more they stay the same, yes?

[walyfd]

In 1995, I bought a 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special ultra, the sedan with fender skirts. Thus thing also had the 22-way seats and a Bose cd radio. This was to replace my '82 brougham that I couldn't give away.

The 93 had speed sensing steering and suspension. At 25, it rode like a water bed. At 70, it was like a shopping cart. The cd would actually skip on the turnpike. I stopped at a cadillac dealer on its maiden voyage to ask what could be wrong with it. Guy said "nothing. It's how they are now. YOU drove a brougham, I bet."

I hated that car so much, I lost money getting rid of it and I squeezed more life from the 82 until I found a 90 brougham.

My point is, if I wanted a BMW, I'd have bought one. Sorry, but not my definition of a luxury car. All my rwd cadillacs were/are quite capable road cars, even the 57 with bias tires and leaf springs. Could it take a corner at 40? No but it wasn't meant to. I bet I can do it with the 91 though.

And the Packard torsion suspension was renowned to be the best balance of ride and handling. Packard got it right for 55 and 56 but it was too late to save them...

[electra225]

My point exactly. They guy on the video missed all the good parts about a '55 Packard. I reckon I drove a Buick Electra and a Mack for too long. I think the Chevy Tahoe is as close to an Electra as they build today. Much the same driving experience. I liked driving the Electra when I was "off", but I reckon I like being beat to death, experience from driving a truck for so long. I recently rode in a '23 Freightliner with air bag suspension and an automatic transmission. No question those ride better and are easier to drive, particularly in traffic. Something is missing. I didn't see anything wrong with leaf spring suspension myself. I appreciate the precise steering and harsh ride on German cars in general, BMW is specific. Body integrity and fit and finish are typically superior to domestic practice. The downside is road noise and serviceability.

[TC Chris]

OK, I know that German cars are carefully engineered and built to close tolerances and last forever etc, etc. But sorry, perfection is boring.

My dentist always wants to replace the gold crowns on my molars with white ceramic to look real. But I like that gold flash in the back of my mouth. Besides, it enhances the monetary value of my carcass.

Give me a little flash. A cool tail fin. A bit of artful chrome. The just-right crease in the sheet metal.

As a bicycle commuter, the thought that sometimes comes to mind is "Being a jerk is optional, you know." It usually comes to mind when some young banker has done something jerky. The people who wave me through the intersection so I don't have to put my foot down? Usually the Subaru and Ford types. And happily, they way outnumber the BMW guys. We're in the midwest. We're polite. Unless we drive BMWs.

Chris Campbell

[William]

The finest car I ever drove was the first-generation Oldsmobile Aurora. It was silent, both in road and wind noise. It road firm, yet you really did not feel the bumps. It handled well, and yes you could corner at 40mph. The engine and transmission were exceptionally smooth, and it had more power than it needed. I went from a main street in Grand Rapids, got on the on ramp of the expressway and was hitting 100 by the time I entered the expressway and the on ramp was rather short. Everything about that car was what I wanted, but not in my budget at the time. I have yet to find a vehicle of that caliber since, and probably never will. Oldsmobile did something right when they designed that car.

Bill

[electra225]

The Aurora engine powered cars at Indy and won for a few years. I had a friend here locally who owned an Aurora. His opinion of the car was much as you mentioned. He liked his better than his Cadillac.

[walyfd]

The engine was an early version of the Northstar. I remember being in a cadillac dealer with 2 cars with blown engines. Those weren't much better than the early 4100s.

I never understood why they thought a 4100cc engine could propel a 4500# car. Then, when the light came on, they tried a 5 liter CARBURETED engine and threw out the FI. Gm could have taken that 307, made it a FI and really turned out a decent plant for cadillac. Plan was to kill the dinosaur brougham (and the professional car series) but they still sold strong. And lincoln was infiltrating the big car market.

Back to this Packard thread: why not compare a 56 corvette to a bel air? 2 totally different cars for totally different clientele... even a 56 Eldorado with Q engine had the same drive train as a 75 limousine. YOU as the driver had to know how to handle it.

[electra225]

There is a guy here locally who powers a rat rod with an HT 4100 Cadillac V-8. It was in a Fleetwood and he liked the car, but he got t-boned at an intersection when somebody ran a red light. I think I posted a picture of it at one point. He also had a hotrod powered by a 3800 Buick V-6. The rat rod with the Cadillac engine has an "M" Farmall grille....

[walyfd]

Dear lord that 4100 couldn't pull off its own pants. It's not even worthy of being a boat anchor if you filled it with cement. Who the "deleted" thought aluminum block and cast heads wouldn't ankylize and destroy the block????

You REALLY had to learn to drive one. It shifted horribly because it was so anemic. The stretch on 380 from Stroudsburg to 84 in the Poconos. .. I'd drop it in 3rd because it wouldn't do it on its own. And forget cruise control. I swear that car went into second sometimes. 65 was tops going uphill.

Every merge was a calculated maneuver. I'd have to almost floor it half a mile back to get up to speed. Cruising along it was great but what a pos...

Always averaged 23.5 mpg even fully loaded.

[electra225]

They made a model of that engine with black valve covers and a model with chrome valve covers. I don't know if there was any mechanical difference or not. His has the chrome valve covers. I don't think he gets in a hurry with a rat rod that has the rear wheels taller than the cab, with the body about three inches off the pavement. The steering linkage is almost straight out, that's how low the cab sets. As long as the engine runs with a modicum of forward movement, I'd say that is good enough. He uses a two-speed truck rear end and 20" tires. The front tires are tiny, maybe 13". He uses an M Farmall tractor radiator shell and a corregated roofing material for the hood. A rat rod is not pretty. Their forte is using stuff most people would toss, so a 4100 works real well for that.....

About 25 years ago, this same guy used the motor and batteries from a golf cart to power a Ford Escort with automatic transmission. He said it was actually faster with the electric golf cart motor than it was with the original Escort engine..... He's an interesting guy, but certainly dances to his own fiddler....

[walyfd]

82 was the first year and it had chrome covers. Late 83, they went to the black finned aluminum covers. Slightly upped the hp and reinforced the main bearings but it was still a pos...

Sadly, the cars really were great, especially if it was a Detroit car. Fit, finish and interiors were well done. Drive train was a disaster. Looked nice in the driveway... with a puddle of coolant from the cracked block...

[electra225]

Why couldn't an enterprising soul (not in areas with exhaust emission testing) figure out a way to transplant a "real" Cadillac V-8 into one of those bodies powered by the 4100? Wouldn't the engine compartment accomodate the 425 ? A 425 with a 700R4 trans would make a swell drivetrain.....

[walyfd]

People have but it renders the Fuel Data panel worthless and mods need to be done to the electronic climate control. Overall, not worth the effort. The 425 77-79 cadillacs are selling like gangbusters so why wreck one to save an 80s car? Those 4100s were so bad, people were actually buying their used 77 to 79s back!

Personally, I'd take an 80 or 81 but try to find one.

[electra225]

When I managed the shop in Scottsdale, we had a customer who put like 200,000 miles on an '82 Buick Park Avenue with the diesel in it. When it blew up, we put a Olds gas 350 in it. The owner was a sales rep for an industrial hardware company and put huge miles on a car in a year's time. I remember we had to use the 700-4R transmission and something else. The air conditioning all worked, of course, and we used the larger diesel radiator. The glow plug circuit had to be disabled, which killed the "Water in fuel" light. He drove that thing for a few more years after that, until the interior in the car started falling apart. The plastic fake wood-grained instrument panels had a hard life in the Arizona sun....

As I remember the customer's first name was Doyle. He put more miles on a GM diesel car than about anyone I'd heard of. He serviced it religiously, no holds barred, no expense spared. We changed fuel filters, we changed coolant, changed the oil and ran Amsoil in it. He read someplace where, if you changed the oil filter flange so you could use the older Olds larger oil filters, it would help engine life. He only ran truck stop fuel in it so he would be running fresh fuel with no water. He didn't have a lot of problems with it, either. That engine went to the scrap pile with the original injectors and the original fuel pumps on it, really rare for those Olds diesels. He put real valve cover gaskets on it when it was almost new. OEM was silicone and it always leaked.

Edit: I remember now what else we had to change. The rear end. The original was a dinky little thing like was in a Vega or something. We put an Olds rear end in it. The customer would have put a new diesel in it if it hadn't been for the TH 200 transmission they used. It went out several times. Somebody convinced the customer that a 700 wouldn't work with a diesel. I don't know why it wouldn't except maybe for shift points or something like that.

[Ken Doyle]

I once drove a Caddy stretch limo with the 4100 HT engine and a full load of passengers, for a full day's work.

The car I was used to driving, a high mileage '79 Checker Cab with a Chevy 250 inline six, would have blown that limo's doors off.