Stromberg-Carlson 1121 console

[electra225]

A man I worked with gave me an old, derelict radio, maybe close to 20 years ago. It belonged to his parents. It spent probably 30 years in an old coal shed behind the house. Termintes had eaten the cabinet up almost a foot. Mice had made nests in the chassis and there was heavy damage from mouse pee. Surprisingly, this chassis cleaned up and built out nice. It's a robust performer. It had no cabinet, so I just used it as a working parts chassis. Two or three years ago, Bill was antique shopping out here and ran across and old radio cabinet that someone had put newer stereo guts into. He was not interested in the radio cabinet, per se, but did not want to see it tossed, either. He wanted the components in it. He gave me the cabinet, saying it said "Stromberg-Carlson" on a tag on the back of the cabinet. It turned out to be a cabinet that my chassis would have been put into. There are several suffixes of the 1121 chassis, mostly due to the variations in cabinet styles. So now I have working 1121 in its correct cabinet. Somebody put a Garrard stereo changer in it, but VM built a version of their 1200 series changer with an SC logo on it. I might find one of those and have it not only more correct, but also equipped to play stereo records. It needs a little tune-up after the move, but it is still a robust performer. A 24' extension ladder makes a dandy AM antenna.

[hermitcrab]

I don't believe I have ever saw a Stromberg Carlson console!... SC radios you can find them all day , but a console? what year would it be from ?... pics please!

[electra225]

Well, the pictures part may have to wait. Both the console and the computer with all my pictures on it are in storage. The 1121 chassis is an AM-FM-shortwave 11 tube job. Massively built, typical of SC, it is massively complicated to match. You have to remove the tuner and pushbutton assembly to replace a couple paper caps. Mine is a 1946 model, built with all octal tubes. My understanding is the newer models have miniature tubes in certain locations. This has the Stromberg-Carlson FM dial with those strange numbers instead of the normal FM numbers. 98.1 FM is at 241 on this radio dial. This one has a 12" speaker and, like I said earlier, it's a powerful performer. Lots of bass. SC used an internal antenna, much like Zenith and Philco did. I believe they called it a "Labyrinth" antenna. Mine is missing the correct AM antenna, so I use an aluminum stepladder in its stead. That works really well.

[Motorola minion]

My farmer-neighbor found a radio chassis in their house's attic. I had no idea what it was until taking it to Kutztown and having someone else ID it as an S-C 1121, who then gave me $10 for it.

I happen to run across a glut of these post-WWII horizontal radio-phonos about 2 years ago I paid an average of $10 each to grateful sellers. I must have a dozen now, all up high and dry in my barn. Almost all use P-P 6V6 and have 12-inch speakers. I especially like restoring these simple things, when I can figure out how to get them apart quickly for diagnosis, the main obstacle.

PA is not far from Rochester, so post-war S-C seem to pop up here almost as much as the major manufs like GE RCA Westy Philco and Zenith. Rochester's other famous product besides Kodak, Genesee beer is also easy to find here too.

There were several cabinet styles (suffix letters) for each of these and I have all three models in nice shape! Unfortunately, the Webcor or V-M record players are all for 78s.

1946 model 1121PFM AM-SW-2FM - both old channels 99-199, 42-50 mc and new 200-299 FM 88-108mc

1947 model 1210PLM AM-2FM very different layout but with more 7-pin tubes and as most other radio-player combos that year, no more SW

1948 model 1409PGM AM-FM with really cool lighted tone controls, uses an even different radio dial

[Motorola minion]

When I checked Radioatticarchives.com , only the 1210PGM shows up. I had submitted pictures of my 3 S-C consoles to the site 2 years ago but they seem overwhelmed by the daunting task of adding them all. I must have at least 20 radios they do not list or show, out of almost 14,000 they do have!

This is one of the best sites to ID any radio (and a few RP combinations) and its a shame nobody with more time (and web savvy) could help them. If I wasn't working so much, chronicling pictures and model numbers to me a very attractive pastime. I hope they get some help!

[electra225]

My 1121 is a 1946 model, that has octal tubes in it. My understanding is that the 1947 version had miniature tubes. Radio Museum has pictures of all the 1121 series consoles. There were several versions of cabinets that housed the 1121 chassis.

[hermitcrab]

I have one sitting in the basement ... it has both the old and new dial for FM... someone removed the changer and replaced it with a VM 1200... I think it starts with a PLM12 something ... cant get to the back of it , is buried under a bunch of other stuff ...

[Motorola minion]

PLM is a style of cabinet like my 1210-PLM, a year later than the 1121, which uses 7-pin tubes as Greg noted. Bet you have the same 1121 I do, Ill get a picture up. I seem to have lost the file.

[hermitcrab]

Here is a few of the one I have

[electra225]

That one is identical to the one I have. Mine has a Garrard changer. A SC-branded VM is on my bucket list. Mine is a tremendous performer. Almost as good, maybe as good as my Philco 40-180, at least before I moved it. The original changer, of course, was a 78-only plow. I'm guessing a lot of them had the changers replaced sometime in their lives. I used a 24' aluminum step ladder for an AM antenna on mine. The original antenna is missing. Somebody hotrodded the one I have then Bill rescued it.

[hermitcrab]

I believe the changer was added later ... you can see where someone joined both sides of the cartridge to make it mono... not sure what kind of changer it would be ... unless SC used VM changers?

[electra225]

Dave was talking about his 1121, and it gave me inspiration to tinker with mine a bit. The changer in mine is a Garrard RC 121, Mk II. It has a Shure M44C stereo cartridge. The changer is seriously kaput. The speed control is frozen. The platter doesn't turn. It acts like it is in perpetual reject. I put the KAW on the power cord and found it draws 11 watts when you turn it on, but the motor doesn't run. I have never tinkered with a Garrard changer before. I have spare VM changers around here, which may provide a better setup than this Garrard. I'll post some pictures when I get them downloaded to the computer.

[electra225]

The Shure M44C tracks at 4-5 grams. That isn't horrible, but it's not gonna work for a turntable, it would work okay for a changer. This changer is stuck, period. I pulled the platter and found that the motor does run. The speed turret is stuck, so the drive tire is a quarter of an inch away from the motor shaft. I got the platter where it would turn, but the changer is stuck in reject. I was gonna rob the cartridge, then toss the changer. I'm not going to fool with this changer. I have a VM I can use which will be easier to live with. Elton's has a VM and maybe I can find a VM that is Stromberg-Carlson branded. I'm guessing that the Shure cartridge is a ceramic. I'll have to look that up.

[electra225]

VinylEngine says best tracking on the M44C is 3.5 grams. A highly regarded cartridge, apparently. Listed as a moving magnet cartridge, so that would make it a magnetic. I'll check the cartridge to make sure it's good, then I'll rob it for my turntable cartridge project. If any of you guys are interested in the Garrard, let me know. I won't toss it, but I'm not going to use it, either.

[TC Chris]

On the subject of changer replacements, I have a Philco 46-1213 "horizontal console" that I bought as a kid. It has a 3-speed Philco changer that I assumed was original until I realized that LPs did not come along until 1948. This was owned by a well-to-do family so I bet they called the Philco dealer and said "we need to play those new records" and got a replacement changer. It was probably a drop-in replacement. The photos that show up in a Google search show a variety of changer replacements, including one with a Collaro changer and GE VR cartridge (and a little preamp added).

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

I am doing some tinkering on the Garrard changer. The speed control is totally frozen, a common problem I have read. The tone arm assembly is also frozen, also a common problem. Chris Cuff has a video on the changer, but the second part is missing. The part where he takes the speed control apart. I think this will be my first task. It will be easier to threaten to replace this changer than to actually do it. I'll try to get it going first, then maybe use a VM if I can't get the Garrard to work. I understand they can be a challenge to get working right.

[electra225]

I have the changer on my little styrofoam changer rig I made. This thing is a mess. The tone arm is made for a mono cartridge. Somebody stuck the stereo cartridge in it, but it needs new wiring in order to work. I have a plinth for a VM changer. It will have to be modified to work in this cabinet, but that is going to make more sense than fooling with the Garrard changer. I'll offer the Garrard for parts, then rob what I think will sell and get rid of the rest.

[electra225]

I had a fit of mental illness this morning, and decided to dig into the Garrard changer to see if I could make it work. Since I have a VM changer standing by, and I don't really care if I get this thing going or not, I figured I had nothing to lose. This changer isn't worth all the much to the audiophile crowd, since it is usually found in "worthless" old console stereos. I've never had a Garrard changer before, certainly haven't tried repairing one before. This thing looks a lot like a Collaro from the bottom with all its "unnecessary" levers and linkages. It has a nice four-pole motor. The drive tire is still soft and pliable and the motor mounts are in reasonable, usable condition. After I did a bit of cleaning, I found that the changer as a whole is in excellent cosmetic condition, nary a mark on it. The platter mat is still pliable. It looks to me like the biggest challenge may be to figure out the cartridge wiring. The output looks stereo, the cartridge wiring looks mono. And, of course, it has the stereo cartridge.

Let me say right off the bat that I am "shooting from the seat of my pants" as all I have in the way of service literature is watching a few Chris Cuff videos. My first effort was to try and get the speed control unstuck. It was so stuck it wouldn't let the drive tire contact the platter. I figured out how to remove it. I removed the drive tire and a small linkage with a spring that was really happy where it was. Removing the motor might have made the removal easier, but I didn't want to take several things apart at once until I "got my bearings" as to how this all worked. There is a forked retainer with a tail on it that fits in the control knob on the top. Removing the retainer lets the assembly fall out from the bottom. I like how they did the speed control. Instead of having the usual stair step arrangement, it has a two-piece aluminum assembly. The stepper half turns inside the stepped half. The shaft in this two-piece assembly is what was stuck so tight. I soaked it in PB Blaster overnight. Then I used masking tape to protect the moving part while I twisted it with Vise Grips. It finally came apart after about 45 minutes of patient, gently twisting. I sanded the shafts with 150 grit to remove the black gunge that was making it sticky. I used some turbine oil on a Q-tip to apply just a tad of lube, then put some Phono Lube on the part that turns. It works really nicely now. The drive tire meets the motor shaft, and it seems to run essentially in the middle of the step on the motor for each speed. It is a four-speed changer with a "neutral" position past the "16" position. This was where it was when I started, and I thought maybe something was broken for the control to be past "16". In the neutral position, the drive tire is not in contact with the motor shaft nor the platter, to keep the tire from flat-spotting. Kind of a neat feature. I gave the drive tire a spot of oil. Now I need to figure out why the sleeve the platter sets on has a sticky spot in it. It was really stiff until I gave it a shot of PB BLaster. I'm guessing I will have to remove the spindle to get this sleeve off, but I don't know that yet. That will be my next task.

[electra225]

I only have one speed that works, 45 rpm. 33 will work if I hold a linkage. I suspect a spring not being strong enough. The other two speeds won't work at all. I have no idea what's up with that.

The tone arm is stuck and won't move in toward the spindle at all. I think I see what ails it. There is a shaft with a spring around it that appears to be bound up. I took a picture of the top assembly that I have to remove to get that shaft to move again. I think that will let it cycle and let the tone arm move. As you can see, I'm trying to get this thing to work with a minimum of disassembly.

For the problem with only one speed working, I have read where shimming the motor mounts with fiber washers to make sure the motor shaft is running straight with the drive tire may need to be done. Further investigation has also revealed that the cartridge wiring is for the stereo cartridge. The cartridge connections are unhooked and there is only one common wire used. I will need to check how to rewire the cartridge, then connect the two commons together.

I think the shaft with the spring around it is the one holding everything up.

[TC Chris]

I suspected that you'd figure it out. A 4-pole motor usually suggests that the changer was designed above minimum performance levels, so getting it going again was a good decision. I'm always a fan of keeping things out of the trash bin, especially when they are not making them any more.

Chris Campbell