FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Discussions about radios and tuners. Do you have an old radio that is giving you fits? This is the place to talk about them, along with stand-alone radio tuners, tube and solid state, stereo and mono.
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Motorola minion
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FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27105Post Motorola minion »

At the scrapyard, as I toss my appliance remnants and scrap steel onto the big pile that magnet crane sorts through, I found this JFD-made FM antenna, aka "turnstile" omni-directional. The entire width is 56 inches, horizontal polarization.
IMG_4057.JPG
This antenna can only be bested by using a yagi or log periodic which is directional. Only true DX antenna nerds like me use a rotor for FM :geek: I often saw these in the 70s, when FM stations were more plentiful, in several directions. It was usually an add-on to a TV antenna, often also a JFD or Finco, which made many good ones just like Winegard, Jerrold and Channel Master!

I have gotten lucky twice now - scavenging vintage aluminum antennas (new condition) carelessly tossed onto a ferrous pile.

As per usual s-o-p, I tossed it in the truck bed and weighed out. Connecting this antenna with a 300-ohm twin lead, to two different tuners, yielded unbelievably good results when placed on a 10 foot piece of pipe outside my garage. The band below 96 mc was especially good as I could get adjacent stations, i.e 90.3 (powerful) and 90.7(moderate) with no distortion. 90.1 even popped in with minimal noise from 90.3, aka adjacent channel selectivity.

I recently sold 1964 classic consoles from my garage. Both times, I demonstrated the FM reception of the Sylvania and Fisher using the built-in dipole, adequate but not optimal. The Sylvania, also using a 6AQ8 FM and tubes for mpx decoder, was able to be RE-aligned using a clean air signal using this outdoor antenna. Whatever alignment I did after I recapped it on the bench, was all wrong and I never got the neon stereo indicator to light up.

Both buyers lived in good locations, where the console would be on an upper floor level near an outside wall. Not all locations are ideal, so I recommend an outdoor or at least in the highest possible space in an attic, etc.
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27111Post TC Chris »

There's an old saying that a low-end tuner with a good antenna will outperform a high-end tuner with a crummy antenna. Omnis are often suitable. I've got a turnstile one under the garage roof for the shop receiver, and another in my little cottage's attic for there. I've got small yagis (the old Radio Shack version by AntennaCraft, I think) in another cottage and at home. At home, my public station was not listenable on an omni because of multipath. At the cottage, the mid-grade receiver picks up the public station from where my house is, approx. 90 mi. In a cottage garage I have a whip-style omni on a Radio Shack table radio that greatly improves its performance.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27112Post Motorola minion »

I was always fond of Fisher's reception advantage, you raise a good point that too much sensitivity can be a problem with multipath.
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27113Post electra225 »

"Adequate but not optimal" is all we can have here, courtesy of the HOA. They made our neighbor take down his TV antenna.
Life can be tough. It can be even tougher if you're stupid.....
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27114Post danrclem »

I have an old directional outdoor TV antenna that I'd like to put in my attic so I could hopefully pick up a station that is about 80 miles away by road. It has to be closer by the way a crow flies, but I don't know how much.
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27117Post TC Chris »

Some VHF TV antennas had traps to suppress FM band frequencies. Others do FM just fine.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27118Post Motorola minion »

TC Chris wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 4:13 am Some VHF TV antennas had traps to suppress FM band frequencies. Others do FM just fine.

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There were circuit boards that fitted in a plastic box where the twin-lead terminals would normally be. Usually a balun assembly to match coax cable to balance 300 ohm twin lead. Winegard did one better than Channel Master, bringing VHF and UHF element connections in the circuit board separately, so you had one coax downlead for both bands.

If an amplifier was on that board, you had a power supply somewhere cable enters the house. That amplifier nearly always had a switchable or even tunable FM trap. The reason was that image frequencies are produced when the amp is overloaded with input signal. I spent analog TV discovery years (71-85) in a challenging location for reception.

WHYY-TV 12 in Philadelphia was intruded upon by a local FM transmitter I could see from our house. If you rotated the fine-tuning on our Zenith chromacolor, the FM station could be heard instead of TV audio! Worse was that an odd "tweet" got into the video, causing wavy white lines you could not tune out, pulsing to the FM station's audio. Why? It's because the FM station at 102.5 mc, a second harmonic of 205 mc is produced by "front end overload" of the amp transistors (which be up on the antenna!)

In this case, we were NOT using the TV antenna for FM but for clear TV reception. Phl was 45 miles away, over heavily wooded terrain, so we used a mast-mounted separate preamp up at the antenna to clean up the weaker UHF signals. Evergreens scatter UHF, you need a flat 4 or 8 bay instead of a yagi or bowtie. I switched on the trap and got feedback from the TV room as I tuned out the interference. PBS was saved!
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27120Post Motorola minion »

TV antennas covering the VHF band generally work better than anything inside can be rigged. Hence always sold as VHF/FM.

Aluminum rods 32 inches and shorter generally favor top of the low band, channel 6. Some VHF antennas had elements you could shorten to shift the gain a bit higher above channel 6. A 20 mc wide FM band would be three more VHF TV channels, 6 mc wide each. A single-channel tuned yagi would not have a wide enough response to cover the whole band.

Outdoor FM antennas dedicated to FM are attached, most of the directional ones such as a Finco FM4-G had two tuned loops, kind of a dual-peaked yagi. Not surprisingly, these work great on TV channel 6
FM RS67.jpg
FM LRE77.jpg
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27122Post TC Chris »

When I moved into my current house 30 years ago, the coil-loaded whip antenna that had been marginally acceptable at the rental house did not work at all for the station I listen to. About that time a publication carried plans for a yagi built on a wooden boom with copper-tubing and 12 ga. wire elements. It was intended for indoor (attic) placement because the copper is not very sturdy. I built it, raised it to the living room ceiling, and wow! So I bought the Radio Shack yagi and perched it on the roof, aimed toward the transmitter, and all was well. It's got a balun at the antenna end, and coax.

I can probably dig out the building plans if anybody wants to make an indoor signal-grabber.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27351Post Dr. Radio »

TC Chris wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 10:17 pm When I moved into my current house 30 years ago, the coil-loaded whip antenna that had been marginally acceptable at the rental house did not work at all for the station I listen to. About that time a publication carried plans for a yagi built on a wooden boom with copper-tubing and 12 ga. wire elements. It was intended for indoor (attic) placement because the copper is not very sturdy. I built it, raised it to the living room ceiling, and wow! So I bought the Radio Shack yagi and perched it on the roof, aimed toward the transmitter, and all was well. It's got a balun at the antenna end, and coax.

I can probably dig out the building plans if anybody wants to make an indoor signal-grabber.

Chris Campbell
If not too much trouble, I'd love to see the plans.

We have an FM oldies station in another town that uses a repeater on a tall building downtown here where I live. I can receive it only on a select few radios here at home due to the weak transmit power. Would be nice to have something to give it a "boost".
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27354Post TC Chris »

I'll do some digging when I get home. Meanwhile, we've been counting all the Toyota Tacomas out here in Santa fe.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27355Post TC Chris »

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27368Post Doug »

When in college in the mid 70s lived in apartment 3rd floor Colubus ohio. Bought a directional as antenna so I could get a station in Dayton ohio 75 miles away.
I just had it on a antenna pole and the antenna against the ceiling.
It was 4 fm.was directional had the best rating at the time.
Now live in the Dayton area and want to receive a station out of Columbus.
But I live in a holler .I just listen when I'm in the car going some where.

Went to a retirement party at this bar restaurant wasnt enough parking. I listen to these young people complaining that there was this metal thing with rods and things setting on 2 parking spots
I said it's an tv antenna. They all turn around and look at me
I guess it was on the roof and was taken down

I'm old
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27439Post Dr. Radio »

TC Chris wrote: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:48 am Meanwhile, here are a couple DIY projects:

https://www.reddit.com/r/modernrogue/co ... l_antenna/

http://radio.meteor.free.fr/us/yagi_fm.html
Thank you, I appreciate it.
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27441Post TC Chris »

I am just home tonight from vacation. I'll try to remember to search for my antenna plans. They were in the old Audio Amateur magazine. They use copper plumbing tubing and some #12 wire and a wood boom.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27463Post TC Chris »

I have found the antenna building plans and will take them to work tomorrow to scan. I built the indoor version (soft copper tubing & wood boom) but the author noted that you could make a sturdier version for outdoors

I have a big 3-inch 3-ring binder full of collected plans & data for antennas. This is the one I have built & can vouch for.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27465Post TC Chris »

I will attach a pdf of the DIY 3-element Yagi plans. There's a "theory" section that would allow you to adjust the 3 elements' length to match the specific frequency you want to receive, or you can just use the suggested dimensions if, like me, you have a few stations on different frequencies that you favor.

The "driven element" uses the copper tubing on top and 12-gauge wire as the return portions. The specs call for .4" spacing. Somewhere I've got ruler that has inched in tenths, but it falls between 3/8" and /16". I had trouble maintaining a consistent--parallel--gap, so I drilled appropriate holes .4" apart in some Lucite or Plexiglas scrap to serve as spacers, 2 per side.

I also uses the same scrap material for the center binding post board.

The difference between a Metz coil-loaded omni whip and this little Yagi was night and day. It was so impressive that I went out and bought a Radio Shack outdoor Yagi (I think they rebranded an Antennacraft FM-6) and put it up at the end of my roof. The homemade one was too delicate for permanent outdoor service.

I used hardware-store soft copper tubing, the kind that comes in a coil. It's bendable. A plumbing supply house might have harder tubing in the right diameter that might work outdoors in gentler climates than mine. I can send photos if you need more detail.

NOTE: I had forgotten that we can't attach pdf files. Our scanner goes to pdf. Send me a personal email and I'll send the plans that way. Maybe I can convert.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27466Post TC Chris »

Nope, can't convert without paying for an Adobe program. If anybody can convert the pdf and post it, let me know.

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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27468Post Doug »

What r u converting the pdf to?
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Re: FM Antennas - outdoor if you can

Post: # 27470Post TC Chris »

Anything this site will accept as an attachment

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