Finally, they are working on the shop

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electra225
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Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2458Post electra225 »

On March 9, we contracted with a construction company, well-vetted by the BBB and the Registrar of Contractors, to built a 400 square foot shop in our back yard. We have an HOA, so the shop has to be constructed like the house, with stucco siding and a concrete tile roof. It can't be taller than the house, and has to have a five-foot setback and a couple other regulation specifications. We finally got the permits in July to complete the job from the county and the HOA. Due to general foot-dragging, lack of personnel, the fact that people get paid more to stay home than to work, and due to the pace of construction here in the Valley, construction began on September 1, when the concrete crew started digging the footer. My wife called almost every day to bug the construction company to get started on the project. Ours is a "small job" so it kept being put on the back burner. Then somebody read the contract that said they had ten weeks maximum after the project started to get it done. I don't see that happening. Getting trusses is going to be the big deal now. Nobody keeps their word. I'm not sure this is a personal problem, it may be out of their control. This has been one of the more frustrating projects I have ever been involved in. The shop is considered to be an extension of the house, so it has to be wired, have phone and Internet capability and have climate control. There is no running water to the shop. It will have 3/8" white peg board walls with finished sheetrock ceiling, painted the same color as the ceilings in the house. We will have tile floor and there will be an 6'X20' storage cubby upstairs in the rafters. They will put in a pull-down ladder for access. I plan on having a corner bench. I have been saving incandescent bulbs so I don't get noises in radios. We'll have pot lights in the ceiling, on three circuits. There will be a 30-amp 220 plug and a 30-amp 110 plug for air compressor. I want to buy a small Quincy compressor, and they keep changing them from 110 to 220, so I want to be ready for whatever they offer when the time comes. They are going to install one of those AC systems that heats and cools. It will have spray-in insulation in the attic and batts in the walls. R-40 in the ceiling and R-23 in the walls is code. I can store tubes and durable parts upstairs that aren't temperature sensitive. I'm told the attic won't be all that hot in summer, but I'm not sure I believe that. We'll have French doors for entry, and the windows with have grids like the ones in the house. The approach to the door is sloped so I can move consoles in and out without going over a step. Code says it has to have double pain, insulated windows. Likewise, of course, with the French entry doors. I plan on putting my drill press and grinder on a roll-around cart so they can be used outside. All the landscaping in the back yard has been wrecked, so this gives the wife something to contribute to the project. We are considering using astro-turf in the back yard since we don't want water spraying around on the stucco. I have some pictures taken and will share those as the project progresses if anybody is interested.
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resized footer.jpg (47.63 KiB) Viewed 2428 times
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2460Post 19&41 »

Good luck. Don't let'm stress you too much.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2461Post electra225 »

If you guys were going to start a new shop from a clean slate, what features would you incorporate, and what features would you avoid?

Rex, building this shop has been like having wisdom teeth pulled or going thru a divorce. I have to consider the outcome and overlook the process. The concrete people are quite possibly the sloppiest workers I have ever seen. They have no consideration for the property of other people. I can't fault their work, though. Really nice concrete work, it's just that the entire back yard is a disaster.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2462Post 19&41 »

I would consider epoxy coating the floors. A retractable reel for the air hose would be good too.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2463Post William »

Wow, Greg, what happened to your beautiful backyard? I guess you were correct in saying it is destroyed. The good thing, you will finally have your shop and Mari can plan the new backyard. Please, keep the story and photos coming.

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2465Post electra225 »

Part of the reason I am planning a corner bench is so I can hide the compressor under there. I already have a hose reel for my air hose, and I'll mount it under the bench. They want $1500 for an epoxy floor out here. We're going to have that done to the garage floor. My wife wants tile on the floor, I just want something that won't get scuffed up dragging heavy things across the floor. Rex, thanks for your suggestions.

Bill, read up really well on Collaro changers. IF you get to spend some time out here this winter, you can listen to the Concert Grand while you work on Collaro changers...... ;) :D :D

You ought to get out here about the time I'm setting everything up, if we are lucky. I'm not griping. I'm grateful that the project may finally be making progress. It has been a long road, as you well know.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2466Post Hydrolastic »

Hello Greg, You can build your shop any way you want! My father wired my shop and when he did it he did something interesting, He ran wires for two circuits for each half of the shop but he did not do a "single" circuit for one area he did two sets of outlets next to each other so if you plugged in 4 items in one area of the shop you are plugged into two circuits and not one. Less chance of overloading that way. Hydro
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2467Post electra225 »

Code says you have to have an outlet every six feet, only four per circuit. I'm going to have the lights on three switches, the ceiling fan on two. The entire north wall will be on a switch so I can shut all my test equipment and bench down and not have to worry if I have turned everything off.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2468Post TC Chris »

In defense of the concrete guys, they are probably used to construction sites where everything is torn up anyway.

The thing to remember is that 2 years from now everything will look normal again. You'll have a nice shop space and an outdoor area that suits it.

My shop is for woodworking and mechanical stuff mostly. It has big fluorescent ceiling fixtures (3) that were in it when I bought the place. The change I made was to put electrical outlets in the ceiling boxes and plugs on the fixtures. That way I can replace or move fixtures easily.

I'll confess that I did not consult the code on this subject. (The limitations period for crimes has passed so it's safe to confess). In fact, no permits were obtained. All I did was move one wall, add a few circuits, insulate, and drywall the place. Seemed like a minor change to me.... The inspector kept an eagle eye on my house, which had a new and unfinished back room when I bought it, because he was sure I'd finish out the back room. That focus kept his eyes off the garage. Still haven't finished out the back room (need to, to hold restored electronics), but the shop seemed like a much bigger priority. By finishing it, I and two others built sea kayaks in it right away.

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2471Post William »

Chris, the old saying "What you don't know can't hurt you" applies often when it comes to remodeling projects. ;) :)

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2473Post Firedome »

That seems like pretty stringent code for exterior specs for a shop, adding much cost to the project.
Rather than Astro-turf it seems like xere-scaping might be the thing to do in AZ and would certainly look both attractive and appropriate.

If I ever get another chance I'll build the biggest shell I can, won't be fancy, as it would be typical metal sided and roofed pole-building specs and no a/c, but insulated well, lots of electric, a smooth expoxied floor, and a lift (dream on!). As it is, we had an existing 2 car 1960s separate garage in the back yard and I put on a DIY 3rd bay off the back side with concrete floor, only accessed by driving thru the back yard, but it serves as winter storage for the wife's Mustang convert-toy and in good weather an extra space in which to work.

If anyone needs incandescent bulbs I bought a huge inventory 10 years ago in anticipation.
I can provide a case of GE or Phillips in 40 watt for $25 a case (72 bulbs) + shipping (light weight)
to anyone who needs 'em for future use. I may have other wattages buried here somewhere as well.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2474Post electra225 »

Yeah, the building codes and HOA requirements added cost. What are you gonna do? Our house is paid for. Jumping thru the hoops may be the cheapest in the long run. HOA requirements almost doubled the cost. You can't buy a Tuff Shed and put it in your back yard. That can only be as tall as the block fence. They intend the homes in this area to be "entry" homes. First time buyers, younger people without so much accumulation of stuff. There is literally no storage in this house. We have added cabinets in the garage for reasonable storage. We sold almost everything we owned at the auction, remember. Most people around here have their attached garages full of stuff and let their car set outside. The HOA will fine you if you park on the street. People park on the street and pay the fine. It costs about the same as paying for storage of a vehicle. Nearly everybody out here pays for a storage locker of some type. We have the Buick in storage.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2488Post TC Chris »

Firedome wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:45 pm If I ever get another chance I'll build the biggest shell I can, won't be fancy, as it would be typical metal sided and roofed pole-building specs and no a/c, but insulated well, lots of electric, a smooth expoxied floor, and a lift (dream on!).
When I was in college, I had a roommate who grew up about an hour away. His dad owned a defunct gas station that had a hydraulic lift. The roommate was kind of a dainty guy, one who knew where to put the gas and the key to make the car go and little else. He had zero interest in cars beyond transportation and style. That nice hydraulic lift got no exercise. At least until my buddy with the '64 Corvette (convertible/hardtop) solid-lifter 327 decided he needed more interesting mufflers. Maybe this was after I had put a J.C. Whitney dual exhaust glass-pack system on the Chevy. In any event, we drove to Upper Sandusky and had our own lift to work with. What a luxury!

There aren't many defunct gas stations left, and those that remain also come with the liability for leaking underground tanks. But "deleted", I sure was jealous.

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2494Post Motorola minion »

Nice post Greg, good to see you starting over with a new approach to everything.

I must admit my 2015 basement-addition shop is a bit smaller than the "playroom" I used as a kid (1970s) in my parents basement. The features of that basement room were many, though I took it for granted then but it was chilly in the winter as the forced-air electric heat was not making it to floor level.

My new shop has most of the features of that 1970 house; Grade-level entry, air conditioning and an exposed limestone wall that dates to the original 2-story-2 room house, which is over 200 years old.

The must have features for an ideal shop appear to all be included from what you described but icing on cake here is that its detached and may need some sound absorbing material depending on how loud you get.

My basement shop is not so good there, the wife has great hearing, allowing me to see if equipment sounds good enough to send back. My garage and barn shops are great for what I call "UL-testing" that's unfamiliar listener testing, where I max out volume to expose any lingering issues.

I highly recommend some ventilation (100 cfm minimum) for soldering and magic smoke, should that escape from an amp chassis or power supply. An operable window or door to the outside helps to bring in fresh air unless your AC-Heat pump can be set to the make-up air from an outside vent.
There is nothing better than incandescent lamps for those up-close tasks. Up-high lighting needed for the space is best used as LED shop lights or retrofit some classic fluorescents with LED tubes. I have found both to emit even less EMI/RFI than original T12 tubes. T8 and CFL lighting plus even some LED spot-lamps can be VERY noisy.

A feature used in my shop similar to 2 circuit to each receptacle Hydrolastic has, is a 3-way light switch to select bench outlets on either phase breaker to reduce line-transmitted interference. I suspect the two circuits to each location was to accommodate a 120 OR 240 volt outlet depending on what your equipment needs. I have no 240 outlets in my barn shop but the phase-swap 3-way helps a lot when I'm doing alignment.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2495Post Motorola minion »

Nice post Greg, good to see you starting over with a new approach to everything.

I must admit my 2015 basement-addition shop is a bit smaller than the "playroom" I used as a kid (1970s) in my parents basement. The features of that basement room were many, though I took it for granted then but it was chilly in the winter as the forced-air electric heat was not making it to floor level. The two recessed 12" square lights were replicated exactly, but fitted with some LED lamps that use a tenth of the original 150-watt PS-25 lamps :twisted: My new shop has most of the features of that 1970 house; Grade-level entry, air conditioning and an exposed limestone wall that dates to the original 2-story-2 room house, which is over 200 years old.

The must have features for an ideal shop appear to all be included from what you described but icing on cake here is that its detached from the house but if neighbors are close, may need sound absorbing material and double-insulated depending on how loud you like things. :D

My basement shop is not so good there, the wife has great hearing, her complaints confirm if equipment is ready to send back. My un-heated but dry garage and barn shops are great for what I call "UL-testing", that's unfamiliar listener testing, where I max out volume to expose any lingering issues. I hate callbacks :x

I highly recommend some ventilation (100 cfm minimum) for soldering and magic smoke, should that escape from an amp chassis or power supply. An operable window or door to the outside helps to bring in fresh air unless your AC-Heat pump can be set to the make-up air from an outside vent.
There is nothing better than incandescent lamps for those up-close tasks. Up-high lighting needed for the space is best used as LED shop lights or retrofit some classic fluorescents with LED tubes. I have found both to emit even less EMI/RFI than original T12 tubes. T8 and CFL lighting plus even some LED spot-lamps can be VERY noisy.

A feature used in my shop similar to 2 circuit to each receptacle Hydrolastic has, is a 3-way light switch to select bench outlets on either phase breaker to reduce line-transmitted interference. I suspect the two circuits to each location was to accommodate a 120 OR 240 volt outlet depending on what your equipment needs. I have no 240 outlets in my barn shop but the phase-swap 3-way helps a lot when I'm doing alignment.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2752Post electra225 »

We were advised a couple days ago that the lumber and trusses are here for the shop. Hopefully, there will be increased activity now. I'm more than ready to not only quit paying storage, but also having my shop back up and running.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2754Post William »

Good thoughts go your way that you will be in your shop soon.

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2756Post Firedome »

Nice news! So important to have a good work space. I've often said I'd be perfectly happy building a really big shop and reserving one corner of it to live in. The wife... not so much LOL.
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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2760Post TC Chris »

Firedome wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:04 pm Nice news! So important to have a good work space. I've often said I'd be perfectly happy building a really big shop and reserving one corner of it to live in.
What a great plan! My own house is becoming a sort of storage unit now. The Chevy will live in rented quarters this winter. I'll be hiring another storage unit to hold the jukebox, a couple old mono consoles (Philco, RCA), the Home-Mark stereo, the B&W TVs I'm trying to give away, and an electric model train table, all currently stashed in my Mom's house. My own house had a brand-new back room added when I bought it 27 years ago. It was unfinished then and has stayed so, serving as poorly-organized storage. Wisdom suggests finishing it out, but the construction trades generally and dry-wall crews in particular are scarce as hen's teeth around here--they're all working on 15,000 sq. ft. "cottages" of the wealthy, all of which require new kitchens and bathrooms every three years when the currently-acceptable countertop fad changes. We're in a building boom generally, with big new commercial buildings and condo structures going up everywhere. But a pole barn to live in... sound sgood to me.

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Re: Finally, they are working on the shop

Post: # 2761Post electra225 »

Labor is the problem out here, as well. People get paid more to stay home than to work, so the construction trade for the smaller contractors are hurting for workers, "gofers" that kind of thing. Our contractor is the master at excuses. My God, I don't know how they come up with them all. :o :shock: :roll:
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