VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Discussions about Voice Of Music (VM) consoles, tube and solid state, stereo and mono.
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VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17024Post William »

I have been working on my VM-570 record player and am in the finishing up stages so final voltage tests, etc. and changer lube job. I have the changer up on the bench looking things over when I notice the needle in the cartridge is missing. This thing came from the factory with a Sonotone 8t cartridge. Before ordering up a needle I thought I would ask if anyone is familiar with the Sonotone 8t cartridge?? Sound quality, longevity, that kind of thing. Thanks in advance.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17027Post electra225 »

The Magnavox record player I redid the Tolex on has a Sonotone 2-T cartridge. Referring to Gary's site, the 8-T appears to me like a stereo version of the mono 2-T. That being the case, and knowing how nice the 2-T sounds, I'd say you should be well-satisfied with how it sounds if it is in good condition, which, unfortunately, you may not be able to determine until you replace the needle. Good luck! :D :D
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17028Post Hi-Fi-Mogul »

Bill,
The Sonotone 8-T is a good cartridge, but it definitely has
a finite lifespan.

I have run across many of them in players, but 90 % had at least
one bad channel, or none working.

If yours is working, feel fortunate !
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17029Post TC Chris »

my mono Emerson portable had been updated with a Sonotone, likely an 8T, before I got it. Sounded good to me. They were well regarded cartridges in their day but seems to me I read that their rubber components were not long-lived.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17030Post William »

Thank you, I hate to spend the money on a needle only to find out the cartridge is bad been there done that. My Magnavox Berkshire had its original Shure cartridge, bought a new needle only to find out the cartridge didn't sound good. :cry: :cry: Unfortunately, the 2t and 8t take different needles which is a bummer as I have two used 2t needles that I have kept from other projects that I could have used for testing purposes.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17032Post electra225 »

Are they enough alike that you could kluge one in for testing purposes?
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17039Post William »

The Sonotone 2t is shorter than the 8t so it won't reach pickup bridge. According to Gary, stereo needles are longer than mono needles, it has something to do with the angle needed for stereo records.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17237Post hermitcrab »

That is where an oscilloscope or one of those new small hand held oscilloscopes comes in handy... they could tell you instantly if it is passing a signal by probing each side of the cartridge , but a low volt AC VOM should be able to do the same when you rub a finger on the rubber bridge a simple go or no go test ...but the sound quality of the cart is something your only going to find out with a new stylus.
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17421Post William »

Coming back to this thread, I did get a new needle and when I went to install it, I noticed the spring steel needle retainer was missing. Someone must have used a crowbar trying to install a needle, as it would be difficult to bust the needle retainer just following the instructions given. I should have noticed it from the get-go, but the retainer is black, and the bottom of the cartridge is black, and my eyes are not what they once were.

Since I really wanted to hear what my VM-570 sounded like with its original cartridge, but now that is not going to happen, I need to find a replacement. Gary's site suggests a Pfanstiehl P132 with a 0.5 volt rating. The Sonotone 8T had a 0.30 volt rating. I guess my question is, will that voltage difference have an effect on the sound? Does voltage increase/decrease effect bass and treble? I know very little about cartridges and how they were matched to different consoles back in the day, so any advice would be appreciated and thank you for your help.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17424Post electra225 »

I'd think an increase in cartridge voltage would be better, but then what do I know? Good luck with however this turns out. You are Mr. VM, so it will be fine, I'm sure of that...... ;) :D
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17430Post Hi-Fi-Mogul »

That voltage difference should not matter.

I've replaced many 8-T's with the P-226/228s.
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17437Post electra225 »

Was the frequency response, particularly the bass, as good with the Pfanstiehl cartridge?
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17441Post TC Chris »

William wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:24 pm Coming back to this thread, I did get a new needle and when I went to install it, I noticed the spring steel needle retainer was missing. Someone must have used a crowbar trying to install a needle, as it would be difficult to bust the needle retainer just following the instructions given.
Couldn't you engineer a work-around for the missing retainer, so you could hear the original cartridge, at least temporarily? If nothing else, you could glue it in place at the point where the retainer was (of course, if it's a turnover, you'd have to make a microgroove/78 choice).

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17444Post William »

Thanks guys.

Chris, I have an idea that I'm going to try just to see if it works, I will keep you posted.

Mr. Mogul, when you go to Gary's site and look at the Sonotone 8T it states not available but there is a spot to click on that takes you to the P-132 with a note from Gary stating that the P-132 and the P-226, and P-228 are the same cartridge, with another note that states the P-228 has a longer needle that makes the voltage output higher. I remember Gary telling me awhile back that needle length on needles will increase output voltage. I have no clue, so I just take him at his word.

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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17456Post Hi-Fi-Mogul »

William wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:48 pm
A note from Gary stating that the P-132 and the P-226, and P-228 are the same cartridge, with another note that states the P-228 has a longer needle that makes the voltage output higher.

I remember Gary telling me awhile back that needle length will increase output voltage.
I have no clue, so I just take him at his word.
Bill
Yes, all those are the same cart.
Gary or Pfanstiehl or both worked to make a longer stylus to boost
the output of the P-228 to 0.8 V versus 0.5 V using the
shorter needle.

I have in fact confirmed this, by doing a comparison test.
In fact, I did the test with the RCA 7-HF-5 I posted about.
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17457Post Hi-Fi-Mogul »

electra225 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:09 pm Was the frequency response, particularly the bass, as good with the Pfanstiehl cartridge?
There was no way to tell, since the 8-T cart was not functional.

With some hi-fi's I could compare their original cartridge to a Pfanstiehl.
Due to their particular amp design, some sound better, some sound the same,
some have better bass, some have less bass with the Pfanstiehl.
Also the speaker complement, cabinet design play a role, I imagine.
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17462Post William »

Hi-Fi-Mogul wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:53 am
William wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:48 pm
A note from Gary stating that the P-132 and the P-226, and P-228 are the same cartridge, with another note that states the P-228 has a longer needle that makes the voltage output higher.

I remember Gary telling me awhile back that needle length will increase output voltage.
I have no clue, so I just take him at his word.
Bill
Yes, all those are the same cart.
Gary or Pfanstiehl or both worked to make a longer stylus to boost
the output of the P-228 to 0.8 V versus 0.5 V using the
shorter needle.

I have in fact confirmed this, by doing a comparison test.
In fact, I did the test with the RCA 7-HF-5 I posted about.
Thanks Mr. Mogul, and you pretty much stated word for word what Gary told me about needle length. I find it interesting that Gary is so committed to his business and our needs that he worked with Pfanstiehl to develop a higher output cartridge.

I posted a long time ago, and Greg mentioned it not too long ago, about my Magnavox Berkshire and its original Shure cartridge. This was a case of I was so hoping for a good cartridge, but it was not in the cards. I was fortunate, the Shure was not dead, it just had a fuzzy sound to it, so I was able to hear what it sounded like as far as frequency range goes. I can also tell you that the Shure was definitely a better sounding cartridge than the Pfanstiehl P-226 replacement that Gary recommended. Not his fault, and it is what it is and I'm grateful that I have a working Magnavox Berkshire.

Bill
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17463Post Ken Doyle »

The shorter cantilever produces higher output.
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17466Post Hi-Fi-Mogul »

Yes, Ken is correct. I forgot it was a shortened stylus.

https://thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/par ... ategories=
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Re: VM-570 and it's Sonotone 8t cartridge.

Post: # 17473Post William »

Well, I guess I had that backwards, thanks Ken and Mr. Mogul.

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