Pilot Model 248 integrated tube amp 7591

[Motorola minion]

While looking through Sams Photofact set #550, a folder for this amp jumped out at me. The most powerful tube amp I have had was my Dynaco ST70, traded to a friend who ended up rebuilding it with a model-specific kit. I know Pilot, like it's LIC neighbor, Fisher, was a hot ticket in the old days such that the names were sold later to Sanyo and ? who else, who applied them to junk later in the 70s-80s.

If I found one of these Pilot Amps or its equivalent by Sherwood, Fisher, etc. what speakers would I need to use?

It would seem only the heaviest would do, like a Wharfdale. The power of this amp is apparent by the size of its OPT's

[Firedome]

Perhaps speakers like ARs or KLH, or other relatively inefficient ones of the "East coast" acoustic suspension (non-ported) design philosophy. Makes sense, we had a pr of AR3-sized Pilot speakers from about 1961 and they were also of the acoustic suspension type.

[electra225]

An integrated amp, for those who may not know, is one that has the pre-amp and power amplifier in one unit. It was common, in the early days of hi-fi, to have the pre-amplifier and the power amplifier in separate units. A receiver typically is an integrated amp with a radio tuner added.

[macgolf]

I have a Fisher 7189 powered integrated which won't come close to making the power of a 7591 powered unit. It is driving a pair of Electro-Voice Aristocrats, each with an economy load of SP12B full range driver and T35B tweeter. The beauty of the E-V's is they were/are easily upgradeable and they are very efficient. I tried The Fisher with a pair of mid-70's acoustic suspension Sylvania 3-ways and just couldn't get into the combination. Even my late 70's 75W/channel SS unit lacked the ponies to get the best out of them.

I would like to find a pair of period correct KLH or AR's to see if my experience with the Sylvania's was unique as far as acoustic suspension speakers go. My current speakers in rotation are all ported, including my 1st speakers ever purchased(Marantz Imperial 5's in 1978). My ears may have built up a bias towards ported over acoustic suspension. I've read that Wharfedales are pretty efficient or perhaps a pair of Klipsch corner horns if space is not an issue.

Mark

[William]

At one point, I had three sets of Sylvania speakers. A small two way set that I cannot remember the model of, a pair of AS125's which is a 3 way set with a 12" woofers. And, the set that I still have is a pair of AS225's which is a 4 way set. 12" woofer, midrange and two types of tweeter set at different frequencies. I started off with a Sylvania receiver with a 100 watts of power. I sold that off at some point and purchased a Yamaha CR2020 receiver. That was an awesome receiver and I wish I still had it. I replaced that with a Carver receiver, and I still have that today. It powers the Sylvania AS225 speakers with little effort and sounds truly amazing. It's' my go to unit when I want to listen to pipe organ music. Don't give up on those Sylvania's, Mogul.

Bill

[macgolf]

I agree that Sylvania equipment is under appreciated vs the majors of the 70's. A few years ago, I was fortunate to pick up a Sylvania RS4744 receiver with a Sylvania badged Dual 1216 changer and a pair of AS-125B's. They came from an estate sale of what was probably the original owner. Some Deoxit and idle adjustment on one hot channel of the receiver and it was singing again. All the lights still worked. The 12" CTS woofers needed re-foamed and I also replaced a scratchy mid. IMO the dome mids and tweeters were the stars of those speakers. They probably could have also used more power, through the pre-outs, and space than I was willing to give them. They did shine more when I had the system in our larger downstairs area. The music in that area is now provided by consoles. I wouldn't hesitate to bring a Sylvania tube console home if one should become available locally.

Not sure if a buyers speaker manufacturer choice might be the same as amplifier choice. There doesn't seem to be many Pilot branded speakers that aren't part of console set ups. Would a buyer of this integrated have been replacing a console, or going separate components instead of a console or possibly replacing a mono setup? Interesting question that the OP has asked.

[electra225]

Mark, would you care to identify that handsome instrument in your avatar?

[TC Chris]

I have a Fisher 7189 powered integrated which won't come close to making the power of a 7591 powered unit. It is driving a pair of Electro-Voice Aristocrats, each with an economy load of SP12B full range driver and T35B tweeter.

I've got an E-V SP12B in a corner horn enclosure. It came to me with a Heath A-9 amp and a Garrard RC-80 that always ran fast. The speaker has never been exactly bass-heavy shall we say.... Any suggestions? Maybe a better enclosure? I'll need go store some E-V enclosures soon-trying to remember the no. of the coax speakers in them-- a lower E-V line.

Chris Campbell

[William]

If memory serves, I believe Mark's avatar is either a high end Admiral or Philco tube model. He shared it with us on the "other" forum and I remember being jealous. Myself, and others here on the forum, would appreciate Mark sharing his story and the photos that he shared on the "other" forum.

Here's something I found a while back on Sylvania. It incorporates several different years, all being SS, but very impressive. They were definitely good quality units, and, equal to if not better than the "Big" three at the time. I would not hesitate to own one in either tube or SS.

http://www.vintagesylvania.net/?page=do ... y=brochure

As far as Pilot goes, I had a Pilot console at one time. As with everything, I wish I still had it. It contained a Pilot 402 receiver which looked like this:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pilot_ste ... r_402.html

I also contained a Garrard changer, can't remember the model number but it had a removable head and had a Pickering magnetic cartridge. What I found interesting was how it was built, everything was added as individual components. In other words, it was a piece of furniture with the components placed and then trimmed after. I'm guessing the furniture company that Pilot used built for lots of custom high end companies so components placement was generic. The speakers were a three way, 12" woofer, 5" mid, and a tweeter. They were nothing special and actually were very disappointing when I removed them during the cleaning process. The were light as a feather, no weight to them at all. That being said, the unit did not sound all that bad. Somewhere in the computer I have a photo of it, and if I find it I will share.

Bill

[Firedome]

AFAIK Pilot consoles always had their separate components mounted in them. One I had contained a SA-232 stereo tube amp (4 x 7189) and SP-210 preamp. The fancier SP216 tube stereo preamp with meters are now super rare and expensive, selling in the same range as Fisher 400CX preamps... in other words well into 4 figures. The EL-34 SA-260 stereo tube amp is also super desirable.

Pilot made a bunch of 2 pc consoles in the late 50s that had those components, and 1 pc consoles with receivers like the 402 602, and later the 500 and others in consoles, also some with tuner-preamps like the FA-690, with a basic stereo amp like the 232. I don't believe Pilot ever made any dedicated receivers just for consoles, they were always sold as components afaik however sometime with faceplates rotated 90 degrees for console use.

I don't recall the speakers in the consoles, but the Pilot PSV-4 speaker pair I had was about the size of an AR3, very heavy, and I think 12" woofers + ? (I couldn't get the grilles off) and probably acoustic suspension. They sounded OK, nothing special, but probably needed crossover caps replaced.

[William]

That's a 602, is that correct, Roger? Very similar to the 402 I had. Thanks for posting the photo. I still can't find my photo in the computer, I know it's in here somewhere.

Bill

[Firedome]

Yep that was is 602. I had a later year Pilot 500? I think it was that someone selling it on eBay had taken out of a console, 6GW8 or 6973 outputs, I can't recall which, but atypical that way.

[William]

Thanks Roger, Pilot is good stuff.

Bill

[macgolf]

Mark, would you care to identify that handsome instrument in your avatar?

If memory serves, I believe Mark's avatar is either a high end Admiral or Philco tube model. He shared it with us on the "other" forum and I remember being jealous. Myself, and others here on the forum, would appreciate Mark sharing his story and the photos that he shared on the "other" forum.



It is a TOTL Philco H-1916 from their model year 1960. My father worked for Ford(who purchased Philco from bk in 1961) dealerships during most of my youth, and I was familiar with them from my early driving days. It's also my only audio gear from the year I was born. PP 7189/7199 amp and single 7025 tubed pre. A Glaser-Steers changer was standard and mine also has a RT-400 simulcast tuner. Also some of the coolest control knobs I've seen. Well worth acquiring if the space age mid/swivel electrostatic satellites haven't been lost to time or MCM enthusiasm.

Great memory Bill. IIRC there was at least one more Philco enthusiast on the other forum. I do need to get on that introduction.

Mark

[macgolf]

I have a Fisher 7189 powered integrated which won't come close to making the power of a 7591 powered unit. It is driving a pair of Electro-Voice Aristocrats, each with an economy load of SP12B full range driver and T35B tweeter.

I've got an E-V SP12B in a corner horn enclosure. It came to me with a Heath A-9 amp and a Garrard RC-80 that always ran fast. The speaker has never been exactly bass-heavy shall we say.... Any suggestions? Maybe a better enclosure? I'll need go store some E-V enclosures soon-trying to remember the no. of the coax speakers in them-- a lower E-V line.

Chris Campbell

Chris,

I'm not sure a different enclosure will coax more bottom end out of the SP12B's. Tight in a corner a slight adjustment to the bass knob is what I do. I did have a pair of Altec 420A's(15" Bi-Flex) in a pair of original Santanas that made more bottom end. They were considered full range but, possibly due to age, needed top end help. I do have my eye out for a pair of 419-8B's(12" version) that I would like to try. The E-V 12TRXB Tri-axials definitely have their fans. Not sure if they'll make more bottom end but they do have cast frames vs the stamped steel that I currently have.

My 1963 Pilot console is equipped with the baby brother to the SA-232. It's a PP EL84/12AX7 amplifier with a matching tuner/pre combination. 8 ohm taps only and no 12AU7. Both are just labeled Model 500. These units were only available in consoles. I think all the 1963 consoles were similarly equipped. Very solid cab construction but looks/styling is not its strong suit. The speakers are a combination of Fisher/Jensen in closed back enclosures. Nothing special though the tweeters are aimed at my knees.

btw That console ad was found and listed by a member in the other forum under "Finds". Those postings do help place consoles with other more local enthusiasts. Thank you Danny!

Mark

[TC Chris]

I'm not sure a different enclosure will coax more bottom end out of the SP12B's. Tight in a corner a slight adjustment to the bass knob is what I do. I did have a pair of Altec 420A's(15" Bi-Flex) in a pair of original Santanas that made more bottom end. They were considered full range but, possibly due to age, needed top end help. I do have my eye out for a pair of 419-8B's(12" version) that I would like to try. The E-V 12TRXB Tri-axials definitely have their fans. Not sure if they'll make more bottom end but they do have cast frames vs the stamped steel that I currently have.

My uncle has an Altec 604 in a concrete corner horn he made sitting unused. I've gently tried to coax it out of him without much luck. Seem to me that many of those got snapped up by Asian audio enthusiasts. But as to the SP12B, it just seemed like it ought to have a little more oomph. It's got less than a mid-range console with much cheaper speakers.

Chris Campbell

[William]

Mark, at some point, when you have time, would you post a photo of the guts on your Philco? You shared photos on the other forum, and I would enjoy seeing them again.

Thanks,
Bill