Brakes!!!

[TC Chris]

My old red 2005 Ranger developed a sticky brake. It's drums rear and discs front. The rear passenger side drum has been heating up, suggesting failure to release. The shop I've been taking it to has replaced wheel cylinders three times, saying that they come out frozen up and that it's bad manufacture. They replace them and pretty soon the next one has seized up. The drum cracked from heat and now has been replaced. On one occasion the sides switched, and once the front discs were getting hot too. But mostly it's that right rear.

They had several theories along the way. One was that the front calipers were sticking in, making the back brakes do al the work. Calipers rebuilt/problem at the rear remained (but now the pads aren't rattling). . Another was that my winter weights in the bed caused the brakes to work extra hard. But the weights are about the same as one adult passenger, and if a truck can't carry one passenger without cooking the brakes, it's not much of a vehicle. They replaced the rubber hose to the rear axle, which made sense because I've read about failing rubber impeding brake fluid flow.

Last night after the most recent work I drove 30 miles on the highway at about 55-60 mph, stopping after gently slowing, downshifting, and being really light on the brakes. Front discs were 70 and 90 deg. F.; rear drums 160 and 196 deg.

I can tell when they are sticky by how the truck coasts to a stop and how it rolls forward or aft, clutch in, on slightly uneven pavement. Last night I could feel it grab a bit just as it stopped while coasting, and it did not roll when stopped on slight grades. I can tell. Today driving to and from work,the truck rolled and did not grab when it coasted to a stop. At work and at home, the rear drums were very slightly warm to the touch. So sometimes they work.

My theory is that either the power brake booster is slightly applying vacuum when it should not be, or that the master cylinder check valve isn't letting the fluid flow back when the rear brake shoe are released. When I suggested this to the shop guys, the response was along the lines of "Now, now, little man; leave this to the big experts." But the truck has been back 6 times.

Maybe others have good ideas? And how is the dual brake system implemented on this vehicle--F/R, or X?

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Chris, you didn't mention the magic word.

RUST!!

I wonder if the backing plate (or other parts) is not rusty enough that the brake shoes won't slide. If the master cylinder, proportioning valve, booster were wonky, that would affect the brakes per axle, not individual brakes. There is a number of raised "pads" on the backing plate that the shoes sit/ride on. These pads get grooved from the brake shoes, then when you add rust, the brake shoes won't return after being applied. Also, I have seem guys put on new shoes, drums and all that, but they don't replace the springs. Make sure the little flat spring is on the e-brake bar that goes between the shoes. If the spring is gone, the e-brake equalizer bar can hold the shoes out, not allowing them to return. Make sure the e-brake cable is not hanging up the brakes. Rust can affect it as well. A good dousing with PB BLaster just for grins won't hurt a thing. Remove the brake shoes, clean up the pads, apply a thin layer of anti-sieze compound. On the front brakes, make sure the slides are clean, free of rust, with a light coat of anti-sieze compound applied. You didn't mention this, so I assume the brakes don't pull to one side when applied. This pretty much eliminates the hydraulic system from suspicion.

One thing to check I just thought of after reading your post again. Have them check to see that the brake pedal is adjusted properly. If it is set too tight, it may not let the master cylinder return and let brake fluid back in. I have seen that before, although not necessarily on a Ranger. There is a clevice on the end of the push rod that connects to the pedal when you can adjust this, just like adjusting the clutch, back when you could still do that. I think your truck has a hydraulic clutch that is not adjustable.

This sounds to me like a self-inflicted (by service personnel) issue to me. Firing the parts cannon isn't going to fix it. Maybe try another shop and get another opinion? Good luck and let us know what they find.....

[TC Chris]

Nope, no pull on braking. The hydraulics are OK on application, not so much on dis-application. They replaced the parking brake cables, and when they did that they said they needed all the innards as well by reason of rustiness. Drums to,I think, because the cracked one was "warranteed" out. I just kinda assume they'd clean up the backing plate and that the parking brake cable kit was assembled properly. (OK, never assume....) Just before I took it in, with the parking cable broken, I found the R rear drum hot, and assumed it was the parking brake system hung up, so I wiggled the remaining cable housing furiously and tapped on the backing plate with a hammer and it ran cool.

My plan is to do some more driving this weekend and see how it behaves. The service guy said normal braking temps are up to 200 deg. F. or more. But that's under hard braking, I assume, and not continuous while driving. Too much heat too long makes for warped and cracked drums (and can't be doing an favors for the wheel bearing, or the gas mileage, or brake shoe longevity).

If there's still too much heat, I will try another shop. I am not hot to tackle it myself because it is winter in MI and lying on the ground under a truck is no fun, and this is the daily driver that needs to work, and mostly because I like to keep at least 10 feet between me and any star wheel adjuster.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

The front disc brakes will run warmer than the rear drums, by a considerable amount. The pads on the disc brakes run closer to the rotors than do the rear shoes to the drums. The rear drum brakes should essentially be cold to the touch, particularly in Michigan winters when they are running properly. They might be the same temp as the rear end in warmer weather, but nowhere near 200 degrees. That is even too warm for the front discs. There are several places in the emergency brake actuating system that can cause the brakes to drag. If the parking brake cable was not lubed with graphite when it was installed, and if it wasn't installed yesterday, it may have accumulated enough rust, particularly if it was not installed/adjusted correctly, to be causing the brakes to hang up. I don't believe there is any doubt that the rear brakes are the issue. I believe if it was me that I'd remove the rear wheels and brake drums, then disconnect the e-brake system completely. Then put the wheels and drums back on and drive it. See if the behavior is different.

I didn't mention this because it doesn't sound very nice. Is it possible somebody put the brake shoes on backwards, or put both short shoes on one wheel, the long shoes on the other wheel? This sounds really basic and kinda petty, but I have seen this happen. A LOT. It is a common rookie mistake. Putting the long shoe in front, the short shoe in the rear throws the geometry of the brake system off and can cause all sorts of mystery maladies. The short shoes go to the front, longer shoes go to the rear on the backing plate. It's easy enough to check by removing the wheels and brake drums.

[walyfd]

Replace the master cylinder and bleed the entire system. If the MASTER doesn't fully release then the wheel cylinders will be slow to release or be partially on.

Almost burned up that 57 because the entire system had rust.

[TC Chris]

The new brake cable was put on "yesterday, meaning a couple weeks back. But I think I was getting a rear brake dragging issue already.

The rears are hotter than the front by a pretty good margin.

Is there a pressure test for brake fluid? It might show if the master cylinder isn't releasing. The system must be pretty well bled of old fluid and any contaminants because they've replaced the wheel cylinders several times, and rebuilt the calipers once.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Two weeks ago would be "yesterday" as far as auto parts are concerned. Is it installed right, are the brake parts installed right? The hydraulic issue is possible, but very remote, I'd think. The pushrod being mis-adjusted is a possibility though. And, is the e-brake setup adjusted properly? Going back over all the work just to make sure it is okay seems like a reasonable first step. Good luck.

[TC Chris]

They've had in in the shop about 6 times. I've lost count. What makes me think hydraulics is that the problem is sporadic, sort of. Yesterday to and from work the drums just got slightly warm to the touch and I could feel the truck roll freely at the end of a coasting stop, and it would roll freely on a slight grade. But I bet if I head down the highway this weekend it will get toasty and sticky again at some point.

The usual point of failure in vacuum-booster brakes is the diaphragm. But I keep wondering what would be the effect if the vacuum/fresh air valve was just slightly leaky and applying a little bit of boost when the brake pedal was not applied. Or if that check valve wasn't letting fluid back into the master cylinder sometimes. And I don't even know how the proportioning valve works, but couldn't it impede brake fluid flow too?

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

If the diaphram was leaking in the booster, you might not have very effective power brakes. It would take more "leg" to get the brakes to work. The proportioning valve is designed to provide more hydraulic pressure to the front disc brakes than to the rear drums. The idea is to cut the pressure to the rear brakes so they don't lock up. The front brakes are designed to do most of the braking, close to 60%, because there is more weight on the front end than on the rear, particularly during braking. I have never replaced a proportioning valve in my life. They typically run from factory to junk yard without causing trouble. Having an issue to the shop multiple times is possible if it was done wrong multiple times, which is not unheard of.

[TC Chris]

My question about the booster in, does the valve ever leak so the device applying boost--or maybe a little boost--when the brake pedal is not depressed?

I did a short, maybe 6-mile trip today i outside temps under 20 deg. and when I got home the rotors up front were 50 and 53 degrees F. The driver's side drum was 64 deg. The passenger side drum was 123 deg. Boo.

I attended a group meeting today--a boat group that has to move. I came home with far too many used books but they are all cool. I also gathered opinions on repair shops and one of them got three recommendations for skill & honesty. On Monday I will book an appointment. Gotta have a working driver.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Sounds like booking the appointment was a good move. Good luck with that....

I don't know what valve in the booster you are asking about. The only valve in the booster itself is a check valve in the vacuum line from the intake manifold that holds vacuum in the booster when the engine shuts down. There really is not valve in the master cylinder. Fluid runs back into the reservoir when you get off the brake pedal. It is forced back in by the springs that pull the shoes back off the drums. This action presses against the ends of the wheel cylinders and forces fluid back into the master cylinder. The front calipers retract when the pressure is lessened, which forces fluid back into the master cylinder. This may be an over-simplification, but is basically what takes place. The brake booster's job is to amplify the pressure from your leg pushing on the brake pedal so as to make stopping easier, with less pedal pressure necessary. If the vacuum was leaking and you didn't have enough boost, pedal pressure required to stop the truck would be greater. I hope this helps more than confuses.....

[Dr. Radio]

Chris,

I just did a quick hap-hazard google search and found this:

https://www.ranger-forums.com/general-t ... ue-156060/

Maybe you can glean some ideas from it. If this is not helpful and I missed something, I apologize.

[TC Chris]

Wow, great find! That's my problem exactly. I'll print it out.

Chris Campbell

[danrclem]

I was a long way from home one time and had one rear brake drum get very hot. I stopped in a repair shop and had them check it out. They said it was the wheel cylinder and changed it. I got on the road and the same thing happened again. Come to find out, it was an axle bearing letting the brake shoes ride on the drum.

This probably isn't what's wrong with yours but it is possible.

[TC Chris]

I've usually been able to hear axle and wheel bearings when they get bad. In fact, I was looking at it the other way around: will those hot brakes cook my bearing? But it's worth thinking about and looking into.

Being far from home is exactly my worry. My travel is often in the night. I lost a serpentine belt one night at about 9 p.m. in a town 50 miles away. Nobody carries serpentine belts at 9 p.m. In the '60s I had a generator fail just before midnight. The gas station with garage attached--they all had, before they discovered that junk food was a gold mine--had a gen. that fit and I made it home. My buddy always laughed that I had to show the guy how to polarize it. I did not remember that because I had walked into the hydraulic lift, which was elevated, and it cut my poor bald head and I had to keep the blood out of my eyes.

So far the sweet red truck has never failed to get me home.

Chris Campbell

[TC Chris]

Update. The 2nd shop, the one with 3 recommendations, said they observed no signs of excessive heating but did see the difference between sides. They said they would adjust the cool side so it was doing more work. They took things apart,inspected, and said AOK. I'll drive around a while and see what I think. They also said that if it were a wheel bearing going out and allowing axle travel, I'd be hearing it. I've always been able to hear wheel bearing noise.

Chris Campbell

[TC Chris]

Brakes still running hot. Yesterday I drove south 25 miles at ca. 60 mph, coasted/downshifted to a stop with very light braking, Temps were over 100 deg. Back home, in traffic with some braking, I measured 209 deg. L, 270 deg. R.

Today I drove N 15 mi. at 60 MPH. I coasted to a stop, using brakes only for the last 20 feet at less than 5 mph. 104 deg. L, 194 deg. R. Back home, with a bit more braking, it was 197 L, 215 R.

I understand that brakes convert kinetic energy into heat. But when the braking is extremely limited, the heat I'm measuring must be from dragging brake shoes while moving. What clinches it in my brain is that sometimes, especially if they are warm, I hear the rears groan or creak as I start up, and feel a bit of grab, resistance just as the truck rolls to a stop with my foot off the brake.

Friday night I plan to drive 145 miles SE to Bay City for the annual St. Pat's Parade. I have no desire to find my self at the side of the road in the dark with overheated brakes. So tomorrow I'm taking it to the Ford dealer. They must see lots of Ford brakes. If the 3rd set of yes says "AOK," I'll give it a try. But I'm hoping they will say, "We found out what makes them drag."

Chris Campbell

[William]

I seem to recall one of our members had the same trouble as you, Chris, with their Ford Ranger and it was talked about here on the forum. I do not remember what the problem turned out to be, and I only remember the post because I had a Ford Ranger at the time.

Bill

[TC Chris]

Got up early this a.m. (my least favorite practice) so I could be at the big dealership when they opened. They called back late in the day to see how much I wanted done. A driver's side axle seal was leaking some, a parking brake lever as hanging up, etc. I said "it's my daily driver, fix it." Tomorrow I get the specific $$$ news. The brake guy's questions seemed to say he didn't like the previous work. After trying 2 indie garages, I figured that it's time to take it to somebody who sees a lot of Ford brakes. Most of my long-distance driving is at night, and I don't want to be stranded with seized-up brakes.

Chris Campbell

[William]

Don't blame you, and I hope they Ford people got it sorted out and you will be good to go.

Bill