Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

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Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 907Post SeniorSteve »

Here is a Zenith console that I have, it is my favorite console. I think I picked it up in late 2017. When I got it, all you could hear was hum, and one side was dead, but I really liked the design. It was I believe the last year Zenith used tubes in their high end units - this one is a hybrid with a tube tuner and a separate chassis for the amp. All of the transistors were germanium when I got it. Right away I decided to replace the expensive output transistors with silicon outputs. There were a few (OK maybe 10 or so) resistors I had to change to make the output stage work, but now it runs cool and I believe it made a difference in the high end response. I really didn't have to do anything to the tuner except for replacing the paper and electrolytic caps. The amplifier stages in the tuner chassis were also germanium and over the past couple of years I kept chasing intermittent noise and hiss issues, so I decided to replace those as well with silicon. That was a little trickier to adjust the bias, so I ended up adding a regulated supply to stabilize the driver stage. I think the amplifier has "real" rating of somewhere between 20 and 25 watts per channel, even though Zenith says it's 320 watts of "Peak Music Power". There are no original transistors in it, they have all been replaced with silicon.

The changer was a mess and would stall with the slightest drag, but it had the in-house Zenith built 2G changer which is what I wanted. That changer was a challenge to take apart and clean up, but it works great. I like the idea of the belt driven platter. The motor spindle is a turret style that runs an idler wheel, which in turns drives the platter from a pulley on the top of that idler. The platter is about 3 pounds and is cast aluminum that rests on rubber grommets in the support suspension which was driven by the belt. It soundd much more complicated that it is, and the changer is quite good.

The woofers were the original, but they weren't very good, I did replace them with ones with butyl rubber surrounds (I didn't want to have to replace the foam later). I hear low frequencies I never would hear with the original ones. At the same time I enclosed the speaker boxes (this was a great console to do this).

Hear is a picture of the front of the console.
Zenith MM2670 front.jpg
Zenith MM2670 front.jpg (92.66 KiB) Viewed 2119 times
Here is a picture of the inside with Zenith's changer. The changer did get a couple of design changes in the subsequent years, but the mechanicals stayed the same. When I listen to my media player for hours (connected to the tape input) the top of the radio chassis does get warm, The console uses a minimum of 100 watts between both chassis at low volume and it will jump up to almost 200 watts a higher volume. I have a 1.5 amp slow blo fuse to protect it, (it originally had a 3 amp fuse), and I have never blown it yet.
Zenith inside.jpg
Zenith inside.jpg (81.83 KiB) Viewed 2119 times
Here's the back of the console showing one side of the speaker section. The way the console was built, it was very easy to add cleats and a back panel to seal it up. I also added some fiberglass inside, but didn't pack it tight. I can play pipe organ music and actually feel it in my listening chair. Even at low listening levels there isn't a lack of "bottom end". This is the console I have spent the most time on between chasing intermittent issues and hiss, but I don't think I could ever get rid of it. I smile all the time when I listen to it.
Zenith speaker back.jpg
Zenith speaker back.jpg (72.46 KiB) Viewed 2119 times
The only thing I am not totally happy with is the sound from the changer. It's clear, but lacks bass. There is a button on the tuner called "Ext Bass", but I can't leave it on using any other input as it makes the sound very boomy. I am contemplating on adding a magnetic cartridge and a preamp for the phono, but really don't want to alter the mechanics. The cartridge is very pricey to purchase another one to test (if it's available at all), and I don't use the phono all that much.

Now you have my Zenith story.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1737Post Motorola minion »

That is quite an overhaul you did there. That M-series Zenith was the best possible candidate.

Can I assume adjusting resistances for proper bias at each transistor going from Ge to Si was offset by a power supply modification? If so - very clever.

Most Fisher, RCA and Magnavox SS units used the same output transistors and NTE 121, a PNP Ge. My 66 Zenith color TV combo with a second from TOTL receiver rated at 140 watts ( :roll: ) has RCA transistors with a 274 code, with a Zenith 121-number.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1773Post electra225 »

I REALLY like that cabinet. I owned a solid state version one time. It was one with the volume control and balance control made together. If you adjusted the volume, you would also adjust balance if you didn't do it just right. That was an awful design.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1807Post hermitcrab »

I liked zenith's idea of building in the 45 adapter .. isn't this particular changer a belt drive? I did a silicon swap on a amp before.. once you get the bias correct you are good to go... but swapping the preamp ? never even thought about trying that...was it difficult?
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1845Post William »

Elton, it is belt drive but it also has a drive tire. It's kind of a strange set up.

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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1877Post SeniorSteve »

Sorry guys, I never noticed that there were any replies here. The changer does have the belt drive, but it''s an interesting setup. The motor has the standard turret and idler wheel for speed changes, but there is another pulley on top of the idler that the belt runs off. It's quite effective and works well with low background noise. The FM is quite sensitive and works well in stereo mode, lots of separation. Zenith used that confusing volume/balance design for several years. I have a 1959 Zenith with that design and I don't like it either. I would have preferred the standard loudness/volume control with a separate balance adjustment. The way I use the stereo is I have a Raspberry Pi music player next to the "listening chair" and have a volume control connected to the output of the music player. This way I don't have to get up and walk across the room to adjust the volume when the phone rings. That was an irritant to me because I would have to go across the room again to bump the volume back up afterwards. The volume control in the console stays at about the 2 o'clock position. I basically set it for about the loudest I think I would ever listen to, I just have to watch when changing over to the tuner, it's a little louder than I like, but I'm at the console when I do that. If you guys have questions feel free to ask.

The cabinet was perfect for the addition of the sealed chambers as both sides were matched and the backs were open. Adding cleats around the perimeter of the back on the inside gave me something to screw a new plywood back to. I know in the later model years they did in fact seal the speaker systems.

Motorola Minion, there wasn't any change in the power supply as I stayed with PNP transistors, they were just silicon instead of germanium. I'm not very good at math so I had the values close, but had to change some of them after being installed. On the outputs I had the bias set a little too hot and the outputs ran warmer than I wanted, but I purchased values above and below the values I selected and it was easy to get the quiescent current to where I wanted. If you're going to play around with things like changing from ge to si, it's very helpful to have a good resistor assortment. Only problem is on the power amp, most of the resistor values were 2 watt sized. With a 56 volt supply and capacitor coupled output my guess is this amp puts out about 20 watts RMS or very close. Not anywhere near the 320 watts in the brochure. Twenty watts per channel is plenty for this old guy.

Hermitcrab, This model doesn't have a preamp, are you talking about the preamp transistors? In this amp chassis, there wasn't much that had to be done as a lot of the stages were emitter followers and I could just put in si transistors in place. The one stage that was a little more tricky was the first stage after the volume control as there were 2 stages of dc coupled amps after, and a little change goes a long way. I ended installing a regulator at that first stage and the rest followed nicely. It didn't help that I used large filter caps and when the voltage would change it would take fifteen to twenty seconds to stabilize. Regulating that first stage was the key. The drivers to run the interstage transformer ran with about 90ma each. There is no DC going through the primary. When making my adjustments, the goal was to get the operating voltages at the same as when it was set up for the original transistors.

Sorry to be so long winded, just wanted to make sure I addressed any questions, thanks for viewing.

Steve
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1918Post SeniorSteve »

Hermitcrab asked about the belt drive changer. I took a couple of pictures so you can see how it functions. Zenith made their in house changer from 1961 to 1969 and there were several models, the mechanism underneath was the same but the tone arm changed and there were other cosmetic differences .
Here is the top of the changer in the console I have,
Zenith changer top.jpg
Zenith changer top.jpg (60.7 KiB) Viewed 2057 times
The next picture shows the changer with the platter removed. It has 3 pins that fit on 3 rubber grommets on the sub platter support. The platter is substantial in that it weighs a couple of pounds I think. The rubber grommets provide some isolation from vibration from the motor. There are 3 holes near the speed control, the largest is where the idler is located under the base. The idler moves up and down to change the speed of the pulley that drives the belt by selecting the step of the turret on the motor. You can see the top of the motor turret in the middle hole. The third hole is where the shipping screw is located. It was still in place when I got the console in 2017.
Zenith changer idler and turret.jpg
Zenith changer idler and turret.jpg (52.08 KiB) Viewed 2057 times
The next picture shows the intermediate pulley which has the belt connected. This pulley is driven by the idler wheel and does have a little weight to it. I'm sure it is for reducing wow and flutter. The belt is wrapped around the platter support.
Zenith changer idler pulley and belt.jpg
Zenith changer idler pulley and belt.jpg (63.51 KiB) Viewed 2057 times
The last picture shows the platter support and the three tabs with the grommets that fit into the platter. Between the mass of the intermediate pulley and the mass of the platter, it runs very quiet with a 2 pole motor.

Unfortunately, I can't upload the last picture, I will add another post and add that next.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1919Post SeniorSteve »

Here is the top of the changer with the platter removed. You can see there is an arrow on one of the tabs, there is a corresponding arrow on the platter bottom. I don't know why that is there, you can only place it on the support assembly one way due to the 45 RPM spindle.
Zenith changer platter support.jpg
Zenith changer platter support.jpg (49.74 KiB) Viewed 2056 times
Hope this helps clear up how the belt drive changer drive assembly works.

Steve
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1940Post William »

I find it interesting that they only used a 2 pole motor when it is supposed to be high end. They are smooth, and quiet.

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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1980Post chazglenn3 »

Great photos and descriptions, Steve! After I get my tape deck serviced I'll have to put up some photos of my YT960.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 1982Post electra225 »

Please do, Charles. We'd love to see them! :D
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 2092Post SeniorSteve »

Charles, thanks for the compliment. I hope all is well with you and your consoles. It's good to hear from you again.
Steve

I just wish the phono on the Zenith I have sounded better. I've transferred almost all of the records I have to the computer so the need for the changer isn't very high. The issue is the phono lacks bass and I don't want to spend the money on a cartridge replacement, especially if I'm not really going to use it much.

My method of transferring the records was to use a Garrard Zero 100 that I refurbished and run that signal into a preamp into the line input of my soundboard of the computer. I then used Audacity to change analog to digital and used 320 kbit stream to the hard drive. My hearing isn't as good as it used to be so I didn't think going lossless was worth the investment. I'd rather use CD's because I don't like the background noise and pops and scratches. Most of the records were is pretty good shape when I transferred them.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 2096Post chazglenn3 »

I must admit, the record changers in my Zenith YT960 and the Concert Grand both sound fabulous. Both consoles generate good bass from their 15" woofers.
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 2108Post hermitcrab »

were those also 4 speed changers? if so what kind of speed control does it use?...electrical or mechanical?... I have never seen the guts of one up close
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Re: Zenith MM2670 (1964-65)

Post: # 2112Post SeniorSteve »

The changers were 4 speed and used a stepped turret for speed change. Nothing electronic was used in the speed selection. In the belt driven models, the two separate methods of isolation really removed the motor vibration from the platter. It was a clean setup.
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