Cadillacs

[TC Chris]

The most recent Hagerty Driver's Club magazine has a column by Wayne Carini, singing the praises of Cadillacs, and in particular the '61-'64 models. He apparently owns a late-model CTS (??) station wagon with a 6-speed manual transmission that he loves. I had no idea you could get Cadillacs with manuals.

And Jay Leno's column discusses getting a ticket while driving a 1913 vehicle. The crime? Causing distraction. The car caused too much head-turning. The judge let him off.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

I totally agree with the 61 to 64 assessment. Very easy to forget when driving the 62 it's really as old as it is. Even with bias tires it feels more like the 91 brougham than the 57 did.

The 64s were stellar road cars. I'd like one but the 62 styling is better... at least I think.

[electra225]

I'd say that is right. The styling was hard to beat, they were well put together and they sold well. The '64's were hotrods. My personal opinion is that the 429 was the best Cadillac V-8 ever. I would take on a 390 Cadillac with my Electra, but got my doors dusted by a new '64 Sedan DeVille. 1962 or 1963 would be my favorite Cadillacs of that era, same for Buick. Unfortunately, both Buick and Cadillac has gone radically downhill in recent years.....

[TC Chris]

I am no expert on current cars, but I had the impression that Cadillac has greatly increased its technical sophistication in the last decade or so--better suspension design, modern engines, weight control, etc. Now their competitors are the high-end European brands so they had to up their engineering and design game. In the '60s they competed only with domestic brands and their customers were mostly older wealthy people. Now it seems to be a younger crowd of the wealthy. I sort of welcomed the idea that an American brand was competing on a world stage.

For some reason, I have a bias against the fancy German cars. At first it was because of their rather extreme conservatism. The Mercedes seemed to be saying "Achtung!!!" all the time. The few Audis I rode in were flimsy and had too much gear noise. BMWs all seemed to be owned by wealthy jerks (is that redundant?). A while back I saw an online question, "Are all BMW drivers jerks?" And I nodded yes. As a bicycle commuter I have a special view of drivers. BMWs rend to be driven by people who think they are god's gift, and by people who do not know how to drive.

So when Cadillac joined the modern age, it seemed like a good thing to me, even if I have no wish to pay for prestige.

That said, I have never driven one.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

Cadillac was named the "Standard of the World" over 100 years ago for winning the Dewar trophy twice...

Cadillac's technological contributions to the automotive industry are vast, even before being bought by GM. Standardized parts, electric lights and self starter, thermostat. First V8 and 16...

Until the late 50s or early 60s, Cadillac's foreign competition was Rolls Royce. Nobody bought German cars in numbers until the 70s. The '76 Seville was built to compete with Mercedes.

The early 80s blunders "deleted" near killed them. The 4100 was a disaster. Early fwd was horrible. The 85 line up was abominable. Looked like they were made out of Legos. Foreign cars were superior and domestic sales suffered. People who wouldn't be caught dead in a foreign car bought them. Even lincoln picked up market share.

Whatever they make now aren't cadillacs to me. Hasn't been a real one since the 96 brougham. And I wasn't nuts about those.

[electra225]

The last real Buick they built was the Ultra. GM screwed themselves when they killed Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

Cadillac would have been better off to produce rear drive Cadillacs with the 425 V-8, then improve it as time went on until they had a genuine worthy replacement for it. Leave it a Cadillac. If you want a Mercedes, buy one. I never did understand their downsizing Cadillacs. Make a Chevy smaller if they were worried about CAFE regs.

I drive a BMW, well, at least a Mini made by BMW. I would put on the list of obnoxious drivers those with trucks with training wheels and most Dodge Challenger drivers. They have wrecked 33% of total Challenger production, the cops have chased 33% of total Challenger production, and people still drive the other 33%. Trucks with training wheels throw rocks and break windshields. BMW dealers are horrible to deal with, their service is expensive with the upsell a feature. But BMW cars drive well, have good brakes, head where you steer them and corner like a go cart. They ride hard and have lots of road noise. Car and Driver calls that "communication". If I have to buy another car, it will likely be a BMW, although not a new one.

[TC Chris]

All generalizations are false, as they say. The BMW drivers who are jerks and inept are usually the young bankers. They seem to feel obliged to buy those cars. And let's face it, people who go into banking usually aren't good at much else. A few people who buy them do so because they have a reputation for decent handling.

For Cadillac and Buick fans, the latest Hagerty Driver's Club magazine has an interesting interview with Wayne Kady, who worked for GM's design studio, 1961-1999, headed design for Cadillac longer than anybody else, and got shifted to Buick a couple times when Bill Mitchell felt they needed correction. The interview discusses the corporate imperatives that influenced engineering and design choices. It includes some concept-car sketches, which are always interesting to see because of the changes that must occur to make them into real cars. He even has some kind words for the V-8-6-4, which he says shows forward thinking even if the technology wasn't quite as advanced as the thinking.

Which reminds me that what I have admired about GM was its willingness to try things. They led off with automatic transmissions, OHV V-8s, FWD, rear engines, air-coolers. I liked my little beat-up Corvair.

And on that subject, Hangerty's magazine has a Q&A addressing advancing the ignition timing when using high-octane gas in a regular-gas (or elderly low-octane design) engine. I did that back in 1970 with the Corvair, a regular-gas model which needed a bit more oomph after I parked the big V-8 Starfire for a year in favor of economy. I ran premium gas and added some initial advance. I didn't hear ping and figured it was good. But I always worried that it wasn't kosher. The Q&A says it's just fine as long as you don't get into audible knocking.

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

Regardless of engine size or the fuel you use, if you set the timing on a GM engine, that is still factory stock at 36 degrees maximum advance at 1200 rpm, ON THE NOSE, you will have all the timing your engine can use or will ever need. It is important to set timing at 1200 rpm since this gets the vacuum advance and the centrifugal advance at maximum advance. Of course, you should make sure they are working before you set the timing. Base timing that they give in service manuals is nonsense. All that does is lets you know all the parts in the engine are assembled and working. The engine runs on the road at max timing. Also remember dwell affects timing, timing does not affect dwell. And, of course, nobody still runs breaker points, right?

[walyfd]

I do. Carry an extra set of points and condenser and an adjusted voltage regulator in the car at all times. Got a set of generator brushes too.

No reason for electric fuel pumps or hei ignition...

[walyfd]

So, I'm intrigued with this timing setting procedure.

Obviously car needs to be in park at that rpm. Air on or off? That shouldn't matter as the isc kicks up the idle to 900 rpm with ac on and 1200 is beyond that.

I set base timing in DR because it's 7 degrees (5 is spec at 100 octane that no longer exists) at 480 rpm which is low idle. All I have is a simple timing light.

[electra225]

My timing recommendations were for pre-computer GM cars. The stuff we collect. Computers changed the whole ballgame, how the engine was controlled. Most of them are controlled by each stoke of the piston, or each revolution of the crankshaft. Totally different proposition than our old cars. You have to set the timing per factory instruction. Each manufacturer and even each division within a manufacturer can specify different timing procedures.

Accessories should be off, such as lights and air conditioning. Engine at normal operating temp. You want the idle to be as "unloaded" as you can get it. Transmission in park. You need to be sure the dwell is set to 30 degrees, make sure the vacuum advance is working and that is verified, make sure the centrifugal advance is free and working, again, verified. Connect an accurate tachometer to the ignition coil. Using a device made to hold the idle steady, set the idle to exactly 1200 rpm, not 1190, not 1210, dead on 1200 rpm. This is the minimum speed that both advance systems are at maximum advance. On cars with TSC, transmission controlled spark (a worthless system best eliminated) you might have to plug off the vacuum to it, depending on what the emissions sticker on the car tells you. Make sure also that the vacuum advance is receiving either ported vacuum or manifold vacuum, whichever is appropriate. Some guys thought putting manifold vacuum to their spark advance "makes it run better". Hogwash. Make sure it is on the correct vacuum source. Make sure the engine is not misfiring. This won't work on an engine needing a good tune-up or one that has a dead cylinder from being worn out. Verify that the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is in its correct position, that it has not slipped. Next you will need a timing light with an advance feature. MIne is a Snap-On that I've had for over 40 years. You set the timing light for 36 degrees advanced. Then you start the car and move the distributor until the timing mark is on Zero, or TDC. Lock down the distributor so it doesn't turn and you are done.

[walyfd]

Ah... so I need a different timing light...

This makes sense.

[TC Chris]

If yo don't want to spring for a fancy new timing light, couldn't you just measure 36 degrees from the 0 mark and paint a thin stripe there?

Chris Campbell

[electra225]

If you knew where 36 degrees is you could. A timing light with advance feature used to be standard fare for auto mechanics. Can you even buy a timing light anymore?

[TC Chris]

36 degrees is 1/10 th of 360. Measure circumference, divide by 10.

My first timing light was a cheap neon bulb that relied on the spark high tension voltage to light the bulb. It was only visible at night or in a darkened garage. Eventually I bought a nice chrome electronic one that could be clearly seen, and after that inherited a professional model from an old family friend that is equally bright.

Chris Campbell

[walyfd]

I bought one yesterday with a tach for less than 30 bucks on sale. I really needed a new light anyway and this project prompted me to do it.